Hippie333 Posted November 8, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 15 Topic Count: 114 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,236 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 673 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/24/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/18/1970 Share Posted November 8, 2015 The point was that what now seems to be a 13.8 billion year old universe was created not "old" but rather fully functional / mature / complete.This is how I understood the question to be... Adam made fully adult, the Earth made fully up and running ...canyons ....caverns...mountains,volcanoes... and the rest....rings in the trees and so on. I am interested in the discussion, so please let's discuss it. I don't see anyone questioning the Biblical account of things just trying to understand it. If Adam and the Earth were formed fully functional how would that appear to us ..age wise? I don't doubt at all it was 6,000ish yrs... I don't doubt it was 24 hour days. I don't think it's making God an author of confusion to discuss it and theorize it out. We are simply told "God did it" - the How ...well... we did not get that memo did we? God Bless, Hip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 The point was that what now seems to be a 13.8 billion year old universe was created not "old" but rather fully functional / mature / complete.The point is that God created everything functionally mature and able to reproduce. That doesn't mean anything was created "old," or with the appearance of age. It was simply a fully functioning planet with fully functional, "adult" life forms. I don't really see why that's a problem. The animals were able to begin reproducing themselves, and the trees and bushes and fields have fruits and vegetables ready to be eaten and having the seeds necessary for growing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted November 8, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,355 Content Per Day: 7.99 Reputation: 21,545 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Online Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted November 8, 2015 I would have to side with Shiloh on this one as making something appear something that it is not would be fraudulent at best...Scientific abilities just are not able, in the present, to validate the truth of God and what He has done! So Adam fully grown on day one is fraud? I believe it was day six 6 24 hour periods and Adam was made in God's pronouncement good... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FresnoJoe Posted November 9, 2015 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 207 Topic Count: 60 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,651 Content Per Day: 1.17 Reputation: 5,761 Days Won: 4 Joined: 01/31/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/04/1943 Share Posted November 9, 2015 The point was that what now seems to be a 13.8 billion year old universe was created not "old" but rather fully functional / mature / complete. Beloved, Indeed Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. Exodus 20:8-11 Indeed~! For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Matthew 5:18 Love, Your Brother Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 The point was that what now seems to be a 13.8 billion year old universe was created not "old" but rather fully functional / mature / complete.This is how I understood the question to be... Adam made fully adult, the Earth made fully up and running ...canyons ....caverns...mountains,volcanoes... and the rest....rings in the trees and so on. I am interested in the discussion, so please let's discuss it. I don't see anyone questioning the Biblical account of things just trying to understand it. If Adam and the Earth were formed fully functional how would that appear to us ..age wise? I don't doubt at all it was 6,000ish yrs... I don't doubt it was 24 hour days. I don't think it's making God an author of confusion to discuss it and theorize it out. We are simply told "God did it" - the How ...well... we did not get that memo did we? God Bless, Hip When you think of something having the appearance of age, then you expect to see the ravages of time present. For example, the appearance of age on the human body would include things like scars, cracked or missing teeth, arthritis and the problems associated with it. The appearance of age would include places on a person's skeleton that would indicate where the bone has been broken and healed. It would indicate in many cases, disabilities and weakness associated with age.The same should hold true for the earth. The earth would show the ravages of time if we are talking God giving the appearance of age. I don't think volcanoes, earthquakes and tectonic shifts were part of God's original plan for creation.For God to make the earth look 4 billion years old when in fact he only created it 6,000 years ago, doesn't make sense. However, the argument that God made the earth functionally mature 6,000 years ago while actually fresh and new is far more defensible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SavedOnebyGrace Posted November 9, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 4,059 Content Per Day: 14.19 Reputation: 5,193 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/30/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted November 9, 2015 I do not believe the prehistoric and current animal kingdoms could move that fast. In any event, you are speculating beyond Holy Scripture what you cannot understand from scripture. I'm in the same boat as you even though I believe in an OEC. I still believe in the 6-24 hour days of restoration, as you believe in 6-24 hour days of original creation. And furthermore, we both believe in a literal interpretation of Holy Scripture. I believe we are both missing something here, but I'm not arguing just to be arguing. I don't believe Adam was a computer like human, and there is no evidence that angels were either. Just speaking the name would take some large amount of time unless you are advocating evolution. What it is we are both missing is beyond my abilities to explain. Maybe beast of the field does not mean the whole animal kingdom. Just a thought. I don't think we can resolve this with the scriptural information we now have. That doesn't mean it's not true. Am I making sense to you?Your questions are reasonable, from our perspective and experience of what can be, but the Bible is just stating the truth, and so if it surpasses anything we know, we are challenged to accept it and investigate it. However, if we are inclined to study by faith rather than doubt, we will find out amazing things about the creation and the first humans. About naming the animals, it is not too mysterious, because God "brought" the animals to Adam. Notice that whatever he named them, was its name. So God already had a name for each animal, and Adam named them the same as God, it proved that he was made after the image of God.Each animal was named after the impression it left on Adam's mind. When he looked at each animal, he noticed everything about it, and also sensed everything about it, from its demeanor, purpose and to its overall expression of love. The name he gave to each animal was a description of its essence as part of the whole creation.We could talk about Adam in detail, and find out some of the things he was capable of, but again it doesn't take any investigation to understand that, because by faith we know he was made like God. That says everything doesn't it?To think that God will restore sinners to that original majestic state should be a great motive to praise God, to realize that what we go through on earth cannot be compared to the glory which will be revealed in us.So you're saying God named the animals and Adam had no choice in the matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SavedOnebyGrace Posted November 9, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 4,059 Content Per Day: 14.19 Reputation: 5,193 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/30/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted November 9, 2015 Barry Setterfield and Trevor Norman have been soundly trounced by the macro evolution bullies for their paper on the decay of c.They simply showed how the scientific observations over hundreds of years themselves indicate the speed of light is slowing down beyond the margin of error of the increasingly improved ability to make such observations.These bullies and their stooges were merciless. They invoked one straw man argument after another. Claiming the size of the universe proves that it is 13.8 billion years old.Then Hubble Telescope presented these bullies with a real problem. The universe is 46 billion light years in every direction. For light to have traveled all that way in only 13 billion years means it had to be faster in the past. And using the cosine squared curve presented in Setterfield's and Norman's work (which is way way over my head) the speed of light could have been as much as 10 million times faster (some 10 thousand years ago) than it is today.So there is nothing to prove the universe and earth are older than 7 - 10 thousand years old. YEC like to fudge the numbers. Are they claiming 6000 years? 7000 years? 10000 years? Can't YEC agree on a number?Speed of LightIf you slowed the speed of light, that gives even more credence to OEC. The time would be longer for observation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SavedOnebyGrace Posted November 9, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 4,059 Content Per Day: 14.19 Reputation: 5,193 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/30/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted November 9, 2015 "fudge" ? read Job... who can even measure the width of God's fingernail on His fifth digit according to His Word ?Who was there when Yahweh created the void ?Who can create a bacterium or a blood cell or a virus ?How much dust has been measured on the moon's surface ? (can't get around this one) ...You didn't answer the question I posed here and elsewhere. So if you take the Bible literally as I do, how old is creation? You YEC like flowering language without one substative piece of proof. You have yet to answer my requests to prove your assertions. If you choose not to see what God has clearly put in His Word and through nature around us, why should I care what you think or say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken Posted November 9, 2015 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,379 Content Per Day: 0.43 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted November 9, 2015 You didn't answer the question I posed here and elsewhere. So if you take the Bible literally as I do, how old is creation? You YEC like flowering language without one substative piece of proof. You have yet to answer my requests to prove your assertions. If you choose not to see what God has clearly put in His Word and through nature around us, why should I care what you think or say? Perhaps because we are to love one another as He loves us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SavedOnebyGrace Posted November 9, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 4,059 Content Per Day: 14.19 Reputation: 5,193 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/30/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted November 9, 2015 You didn't answer the question I posed here and elsewhere. So if you take the Bible literally as I do, how old is creation? You YEC like flowering language without one substative piece of proof. You have yet to answer my requests to prove your assertions. If you choose not to see what God has clearly put in His Word and through nature around us, why should I care what you think or say? Perhaps because we are to love one another as He loves us. I've been a born-again Christian for sometime, more than many have been alive on this forum. I can love someone but not want to associate with them because of one thing or another. Case in point, shiloh357. I'll no longer read anything he posts because of all the errors he is propagating. With the focus on simplejeff, I've repeatedly asked him for scriptures which he has either ignored are is unable to supply. So if my position as a fundamentalist Christian who takes the Bible literally, as an Old Earth Creationist and Gap Theory Proponent is unacceptable to this forum's standard beliefs, I will go away and never come back here again. Maybe the best way for me to show love is to not be here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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