RustyAngeL Posted February 9, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 155 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,464 Content Per Day: 1.02 Reputation: 8,810 Days Won: 57 Joined: 03/30/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/12/1952 Share Posted February 9, 2016 4 hours ago, thereselittleflower said: other one, Jesus saw satan fall from heaven to the earth. I'm sorry but I think you've gotten so wrapped up in the demonic realm that at times you've been listening to the wrong voices and they are leading you astray. You read of Satan falling from Heaven in Revelation. 7 minutes ago, thereselittleflower said: No, eternity is not time. Time bagan. Time will end. Eternity is outside of time. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted February 9, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.68 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted February 9, 2016 7 minutes ago, gdemoss said: According to you. Very simply, αἰώνιος aiṓnios, without beginning or end is what eternal in the scriptures means gdemoss. Greek: without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be without beginning without end, never to cease, everlasting If eternity exists within time, and God exists eternally, then time is not a creation of God, but controls God, and so then God is not omnipotent. So to say eternity exists within time is to deny God is above everything. For then He would not be above time. Time as used in the bible always refers to the temporal world, not the spiritual world. יוֹם yôwm day, time, year day (as opposed to night) day (24 hour period) as defined by evening and morning in Genesis 1 as a division of time a working day, a day's journey days, lifetime (pl.) time, period (general) year temporal references today yesterday tomorrow καιρός kairós, due measure a measure of time, a larger or smaller portion of time, hence: a fixed and definite time, the time when things are brought to crisis, the decisive epoch waited for opportune or seasonable time the right time a limited period of time to what time brings, the state of the times, the things and events of time The words for eternal are olam and aionios and then they only refer to eternity when used in particular ways, which is why people get confused on their usage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted February 9, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.68 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted February 9, 2016 5 minutes ago, RustyAngeL said: You read of Satan falling from Heaven in Revelation. Agreed. And in Matthew when Jesus saw him fall from heaven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdemoss Posted February 9, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,402 Content Per Day: 0.98 Reputation: 2,154 Days Won: 28 Joined: 02/10/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1971 Share Posted February 9, 2016 14 minutes ago, thereselittleflower said: Very simply, αἰώνιος aiṓnios, without beginning or end is what eternal in the scriptures means gdemoss. Greek: without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be without beginning without end, never to cease, everlasting If eternity exists within time, and God exists eternally, then time is not a creation of God, but controls God, and so then God is not omnipotent. So to say eternity exists within time is to deny God is above everything. For then He would not be above time. We disagree. Eternal is used to describe condemnation as well and the condemnation had a beginning for iniquity was found in him. Words have an array of meaning and we ought to be careful not to condemn one another before understanding each other. I am like you in that I seek out resources that have credibility but I have found many of them lacking in their fulness. Eternal can simply mean unchanging as it is applied unto God many times. It can mean that which encompasses all time both forward and backward. Time cannot end except all that exists ceases to change in any manner for time is a unit of measure for that which changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted February 9, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.68 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted February 9, 2016 16 minutes ago, gdemoss said: We disagree. Eternal is used to describe condemnation as well and the condemnation had a beginning for iniquity was found in him. Words have an array of meaning and we ought to be careful not to condemn one another before understanding each other. I am like you in that I seek out resources that have credibility but I have found many of them lacking in their fulness. Eternal can simply mean unchanging as it is applied unto God many times. It can mean that which encompasses all time both forward and backward. Time cannot end except all that exists ceases to change in any manner for time is a unit of measure for that which changes. When it is used to speak of condemnation, it's used in the sense of eternity future. gdemoss, Jesus is the Alpha and Omega, the BEGINNING and THE END. This speaks to the passage of time. IF time has not beginning and no end, then Jesus cannot be the Beginning and the End. Rev 10:6 And he swore by him who lives to the eternity of eternities, him who created Heaven and that which is in it, and The Earth, and that which is in it: “Time shall be no more.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdemoss Posted February 9, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,402 Content Per Day: 0.98 Reputation: 2,154 Days Won: 28 Joined: 02/10/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1971 Share Posted February 9, 2016 33 minutes ago, thereselittleflower said: When it is used to speak of condemnation, it's used in the sense of eternity future. gdemoss, Jesus is the Alpha and Omega, the BEGINNING and THE END. This speaks to the passage of time. IF time has not beginning and no end, then Jesus cannot be the Beginning and the End. Rev 10:6 And he swore by him who lives to the eternity of eternities, him who created Heaven and that which is in it, and The Earth, and that which is in it: “Time shall be no more.” You must add to what is written to determine that he meant he was the beginning and the end of time. He only said he was the beginning and the end. There is no reason to believe that that cannot mean that he is the final authority on all things as in nothing begins or ends without him. The passage you quoted as you have quoted appears that it is calling for time to cease but this is only appearance for it can simply mean that the time allowed for something to happen has expired. I don't expect to ever win you over in any discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted February 9, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 599 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,260 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,988 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted February 9, 2016 5 hours ago, RustyAngeL said: Next year? Heaven has no time. It is eternity. Your talking dimensions? Time flow, where do you get dimensions, time flow and not being cast out of the second Heaven until next year. I don't know who you are listening to but you find nothing about this in the Bible. If you do I want the book, chapter and verses in which you find all this in. Dimensions and time flow, from an "m" string physics book. It's really about six or seven hundred pages long and would be rather tedious to quote, and the math would be over the heads of 99% of the people reading it. I get the next year from the first two verses in Revelation chapter 12. That vision that John saw in the heavens will happen on September 23'rd next year and it has not happened since Adam and Eve were created and will not happen again for at least 7,000 years. The Chapter goes on to describe Satan and the Angels being kicked out of heaven and being all upset so to speak for they know they have a short time..... short time..... nearly 2000 years ago does not add up to me to be a short time. I say that Jesus was speaking of Satan falling from Grace and not kicked out of the heavens.... well unless 2,000+ years can be thought of as a very short time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted February 9, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 599 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,260 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,988 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted February 9, 2016 3 hours ago, thereselittleflower said: No, eternity is not time. Time bagan. Time will end. Eternity is outside of time. I still say that you are taking a single verse out of context and applying something to it that totally changes what the word is saying. Happens a lot here.... That statement made about Satan falling was just a warning about pride that the Disciples were showing from being able to have dominion over the demons. I know you like to have the last word on every subject, so I'll let you, but we will just let all the Guests that come by read our stuff decide which of us is correct..... BTW I agree that eternity is outside of time..... and so is God even as we speak, read and learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted February 9, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.68 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted February 9, 2016 4 hours ago, gdemoss said: You must add to what is written to determine that he meant he was the beginning and the end of time. He only said he was the beginning and the end. There is no reason to believe that that cannot mean that he is the final authority on all things as in nothing begins or ends without him. The passage you quoted as you have quoted appears that it is calling for time to cease but this is only appearance for it can simply mean that the time allowed for something to happen has expired. I don't expect to ever win you over in any discussion. He is the final authority AND SOURCE of all things, including time. I stand by what I said. Time is not greater than God. God is greater than Time. Time does not control God or limit God. God controls and limits time. Your position logically must end with Time being greater than God and controlling God if God is not outside of, and the source and beginning and ending of, time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdemoss Posted February 9, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,402 Content Per Day: 0.98 Reputation: 2,154 Days Won: 28 Joined: 02/10/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1971 Share Posted February 9, 2016 35 minutes ago, thereselittleflower said: He is the final authority AND SOURCE of all things, including time. I stand by what I said. Time is not greater than God. God is greater than Time. Time does not control God or limit God. God controls and limits time. Your position logically must end with Time being greater than God and controlling God if God is not outside of, and the source and beginning and ending of, time. Yes, you are limited to your logic. I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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