The daughter of Babylon

[Sister]

On 11/1/2016 at 0:01 PM, unworthydude said:

If Jerusalem is just a daughter harlot then why do other verses clearly teach the harlotry of God's people? Again, you have to take into account all that it says. I have no idea how you can say that Jerusalem was "merely" the daughter of harlotry. Please read more scripture...

Unworthydude

Because if we take into account the Mother Harlot, she has been reigning over all the 7 kingdoms.

 

Revelation 17:5   And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
Revelation 17:15   And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

Revelation 17:18   And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

Revelation 17:9   And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

Did Israel reign over 1. Egypt?, 2. Assyria?  3. Babylon?  4. Medo-Persia?  5. Grecia?  6. Rome? or end time kingdom?  Israel will be attacked and oppressed by the end time kingdom (10 kings and False prophet), not ruling.

I can only think of one that has ruled over all these kingdoms, and over the kings of the earth, and peoples, and multitudes and nations and tongues, since the first kingdom, and that is the King of Babylon, Satan.  The Mother Harlot is Satan's woman, spiritually speaking, because she multiplies and gives birth to many children.  God has a woman also (spiritually), and her name is called Zion, she multiplies also.

So compare the two. God's woman is giving "truth" required for salvation, and Satan's Woman is offering lies and materials (mammon) for destruction.

 

 Revelation 17:6   And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

The Mother Harlot used Israel to do this job, one of her daughters, because Israel started serving her.  The spirit of Anti-christ came out of Israel, and this spirit shares the same spirit with the Dragon.  From Israel, the spirit of Anti-christ has spread.  This is of the spirit of Babylon, the same spirit of the Dragon.  Israel is not the Mother, because she serves the Mother, and is her daughter, amongst many daughters, but will be punished severely because she was supposed to be serving God.

 

 

[MorningGlory]

8 hours ago, unworthydude said:

 

inchrist,

I readily acknowledge that God will rescue His remnant from the destruction that will come upon Jerusalem. Your repeating the defensive verses were not without agreement on my part. It was nice to see you acknowledge that Israel will suffer some kind of judgment.  Although I don't think you have gone far enough. Their defense will follow on the back of a terrible day of wrath, called Jacob's Trouble.

 

Is this your own writing or is it from someone else? 

[unworthydude]

Unworthydude

Because if we take into account the Mother Harlot, she has been reigning over all the 7 kingdoms.

 

Revelation 17:5   And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
Revelation 17:15   And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

I think this scripture below answers that Mother description or even the understanding that Paul gives in Galatians 4:22-31.

• Eze 16:16  You took some of your garments and made for yourself colorful shrines, and on them played the whore. The like has never been, nor ever shall be.

Revelation 17:18   And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

First, we have to figure out how the Jewish nation rules or will rule.

Revelation 17:9   And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

Did Israel reign over 1. Egypt?, 2. Assyria?  3. Babylon?  4. Medo-Persia?  5. Grecia?  6. Rome? or end time kingdom?  Israel will be attacked and oppressed by the end time kingdom (10 kings and False prophet), not ruling.

I don't know how Jerusalem reigns over the kings of the earth. I don't know who the 7 kingdoms are but Lord willing, He will show us. I do have theories, though I am not sure. You have given me some food to chew on.  I am persuaded that Babylon is Jerusalem but there is so much I don't know. The future of Israel in the world is what is in question and so we can't rule out what is clear for what is obscure. Deut. 29:29

What if the nations that they rule over are the Islamic nations that are round about Israel and they rule over them militarily and they hate them for it. Maybe the conspiracy that the Jews run the banking institutions is what's in mind. Perhaps even their ruling is a spiritual demonic one?

I can only think of one that has ruled over all these kingdoms, and over the kings of the earth, and peoples, and multitudes and nations and tongues, since the first kingdom, and that is the King of Babylon, Satan.  The Mother Harlot is Satan's woman, spiritually speaking, because she multiplies and gives birth to many children.  God has a woman also (spiritually), and her name is called Zion, she multiplies also.

This interpretation has a great point. Satan's kingdom is really behind the world's nations.

• Mat 4:8-9  Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory.  (9)  And he said to him, "All these I will give you, if you will fall down and worship me."

I do agree that Satan 'rules over all' the kingdoms on earth but the problem is trying to interpret all the prophetic texts that harmonize around God's chosen city of Jerusalem. If we replace Jerusalem as a filler for Satan then you can add in any nation you want at that point. Scripture does show Jerusalem as a spiritual or symbolic nation of the world...

• Rev_11:8  and their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city that symbolically is called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified.

I think there are good arguments that reveal a Biblical warrant for calling Jerusalem Babylon. If there are scriptures to prove otherwise, I would love to see them!

So compare the two. God's woman is giving "truth" required for salvation, and Satan's Woman is offering lies and materials (mammon) for destruction.

Definitely true. The slies of Satan are found in the world's kingdoms for sure but it's Jerusalem where God was most misrepresented and betrayed. Satan has been counterfeiting and deceiving people with his false gospel since the garden. The gospel is our dependence on God in Christ where Satan teaches us to be independent. To trust in our ourselves, money or others.

• Gal 3:3  Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?

That was Israel's sin. How many times did they choose to be independent from God... Even David, when Satan tempted him to number the people in 1Ch 21:1, was relying on himself. The sin to trust in ourselves rather than God is deeply offensive and Satanic. It denies God His rightful rule and authority to provide and care for us. It was also the sin of Nebuchadnezzar and Satan in Isa 14.

The gospel is Christ dying and living again for us because we could not please God without Him. We must rely upon Him. Trust in Him by faith. A whore is somebody who is no longer loyal and dependent but seeks to be independent and love others . A whore seeks the care of another rather than a husband/wife to provide for him/her. Israel in Ezek. 16 chose to seek independence rather than dependence on her husband, God.  What's amazing is that God in His love still wants Israel back even though she has sought others. He will judge her but ultimately will restore her as His people.

When He takes away all her lovers and she has no one else, she will return and lean on her God.

• Isa_10:20  In that day the remnant of Israel and the survivors of the house of Jacob will no more lean on him who struck them, but will lean on the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, in truth.
• Rom 11:11  So I ask, did they stumble in order that they might fall? By no means! Rather through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous.

 Revelation 17:6   And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

The Mother Harlot used Israel to do this job, one of her daughters, because Israel started serving her.  The spirit of Anti-christ came out of Israel, and this spirit shares the same spirit with the Dragon.  From Israel, the spirit of Anti-christ has spread.  This is of the spirit of Babylon, the same spirit of the Dragon.  Israel is not the Mother, because she serves the Mother, and is her daughter, amongst many daughters, but will be punished severely because she was supposed to be serving God.

Israel the mother bears the most guilt because she was married. The world had no husband.

Yes. absolutely! Israel is the mother. She was married and even had a child metaphorically speaking...

• Rev 12:5  She gave birth to a male child, one who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron, but her child was caught up to God and to his throne,

The world does have a father..

Joh_8:44  You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

 

Edited January 17, 2016 by unworthydude

[thereselittleflower]

 You're saying the father of the child in Rev 12:5 is the devil?

 

 

[unworthydude]

MorningGlory,

Some of it is mine. There are places that I do need to add a link to give credit for their scriptural insight.  Thanks for bringing this up. I love that you can always edit a post on this forum.  That's a nice feature.

I first heard this view about 15 years ago and have been researching it for some time now. Some of the scriptures that I've come across, I'm not sure where I picked them all up. I read scripture a lot. God has given me time to study so I praise Him for it!  I'm trying to work through other topics that are connected. Harmonization is key. God spoke through and intertwined the scriptures with multiple authors. All telling us from differing perspectives and words, the same messages. It's deeply satisfying when He gifts our minds to catch what He has revealed. It's like a composite of many verses that when layered together paint a picture for our understanding. You have to read and acquaint yourself with all the texts though. If not you will have a fragmented understanding My problem is that my memory is not as good as I'd like it to be. But when I see it, I'll break down in joy because I know God has been very loving to allow me to perceive it all together at once. He is soooo brilliant!

Edited January 17, 2016 by unworthydude

[unworthydude]

37 minutes ago, thereselittleflower said:

 You're saying the father of the child in Rev 12:5 is the devil?

 

 

Oh No. Not at all. It's all metaphorical as I stated. The world follows the devil spiritually and Israel is represented as mother who gives birth to a child. This language is figurative and is only used to communicate deeper ideas. The two verses are completely separate and communicate two different ideas that do not correspond. Just like the church is called a bride metaphorically... Israel is not a physical mother.

Edited January 17, 2016 by unworthydude

[Sister]

54 minutes ago, unworthydude said:

Oh No. Not at all. It's all metaphorical as I stated. The world follows the devil spiritually and Israel is represented as mother who gives birth to a child. This language is figurative and is only used to communicate deeper ideas. The two verses are completely separate and communicate two different ideas that do not correspond. Just like the church is called a bride metaphorically... Israel is not a physical mother.

unworthydude

The woman in Rev 12 is not Israel, but God's woman "Zion."  Zion is the woman who feeds her children God's teachings, his doctrine.  Zion's teachings are holy and are of the truth.  The God fearing "dwell" in Zion spiritually, and not in Babylon.

Christ was born in "the flesh" out of Zion.  He was born out of her teachings so to speak.  He was sent from above to give us the light, which are the teachings of God.

John 7:16   Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

 

The Woman is from above, not the earth, so her teachings are heavenly, not earthly.  God pictures his teachings as a beautiful woman, pure, undefiled, because she is clothed with the sun (truth).  The moon is under her feet, so she is high up in heaven.  Her teachings come from heaven, not the earth.

 Revelation 12:1   And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

The 12 stars on the crown of her head are the 12 tribes of Israel, because Israel has been in God's plan from the beginning.  In the end, Israel whom God first revealed himself to, who strayed, played the harlot, got punished in the end times, then given mercy by having the veil lifted, will sit upon God's doctrine and their righteousness will be the glory of God's doctrine during the millennium.  So the crown is symbolic of Israel then, the first to rest on Zion's teachings, and Israel future.  What God has planned for them at the end of all this, and where they will sit.

Israel was serving Zion.  Learning God's teachings from the Old Testament at first.  So Israel cannot be Zion.

If we are serving the Lord, we are in Zion also.  Zion is not just for Israel, but for all the God fearing now.  All who follow God's doctrine of truth are of Zion spiritually.

Zion will give birth to all her children in one day at the resurrection.  Her children of all nations and tongues will be born out of her teachings this time, because they have converted to what Christ commanded.  Then during the Millennium Israel will learn the same teachings of Zion that others already accepted, and will lead the nations the right way, glorifying God and his truth.

This is how I see it from how the scriptures are laid out.

[OakWood]

10 hours ago, FresnoJoe said:

Beloved, Keep Your Eye On Jerusalem

Jerusalem—built as a city that is bound firmly together, to which the tribes go up, the tribes of the Lord, as was decreed for Israel, to give thanks to the name of the Lord. There thrones for judgment were set, the thrones of the house of David. Psalms 122:3-5 (English Standard Version)

For When The Remnant

And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein. And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God. Zechariah 13:8-9 (King James Version)

Turns To Jesus

Then I will return to my lair until they have borne their guilt and seek my face-- in their misery they will earnestly seek me." Hosea 5:15 (New International Version)

Jesus Comes Back~!

I will also leave in the midst of thee an afflicted and poor people, and they shall trust in the name of the LORD.
The remnant of Israel shall not do iniquity, nor speak lies; neither shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth: for they shall feed and lie down, and none shall make them afraid.

Sing, O daughter of Zion; shout, O Israel; be glad and rejoice with all the heart, O daughter of Jerusalem.

The LORD hath taken away thy judgments, he hath cast out thine enemy: the king of Israel, even the LORD, is in the midst of thee: thou shalt not see evil any more.

In that day it shall be said to Jerusalem, Fear thou not: and to Zion, Let not thine hands be slack.

The LORD thy God in the midst of thee is mighty; he will save, he will rejoice over thee with joy; he will rest in his love, he will joy over thee with singing. Zephaniah 3:12-17 (King James Version)

Joe, when the fruit of frustration hits everybody (and we're all hit by it from time to time.... I'm no exception) you have an amazing way of bringing everybody back to scripture. God bless you. You're a rare gem among the Worthy clan.

 

[Sister]

unworthydude

If we understand the deep meaning of who Zion is, and what she represents, then we can see the other side of the coin, who Satan's woman is, The Mother of Harlots and who she represents, teaching the world her doctrine, ...all her teachings that contradict God.  God sees Satan's woman (his doctrine) as a dirty woman, and if she's a harlot, then all her daughters are harlots also, acting like the mother.

[thereselittleflower]

2 hours ago, unworthydude said:

Oh No. Not at all. It's all metaphorical as I stated. The world follows the devil spiritually and Israel is represented as mother who gives birth to a child. This language is figurative and is only used to communicate deeper ideas. The two verses are completely separate and communicate two different ideas that do not correspond. Just like the church is called a bride metaphorically... Israel is not a physical mother.

who is the child?