Last Daze Posted December 17, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted December 17, 2015 1 hour ago, WilliamL said: What the scriptures do tell us is, "The Beast ... will ascend out of the Abyss..." Rev. 17:8 Rev. 9:11, Jude 6, and 2 Peter 2:4, as well as a number of passages in the Book of Enoch, tell us that angels are in the Abyss; but no scripture tells us that men are there, or that they "will ascend out of the Abyss." These are scriptural doctrines. A truth that is very relevant in determining who is who. The abyss is only used in the context of evil spirit beings, never humans. That's the rightly divided understanding. There is nothing scriptural to suggest otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montana Marv Posted December 17, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,136 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 1,091 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/03/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted December 17, 2015 2 hours ago, WilliamL said: Once again you promote your non-biblical doctrines as fact. You have not provided a single scripture to support these teachings: 1) "that the Beast will be a man who controls the world." 2) that the Beast is the same as the Man of Sin, the Son of Perdition. What the scriptures do tell us is, "The Beast ... will ascend out of the Abyss..." Rev. 17:8 Rev. 9:11, Jude 6, and 2 Peter 2:4, as well as a number of passages in the Book of Enoch, tell us that angels are in the Abyss; but no scripture tells us that men are there, or that they "will ascend out of the Abyss." These are scriptural doctrines. You do not teach scriptural doctrine, rather, you teach doctrines of men. So what if "the majority of Christians" believe this; for the majority of Christians are ignorant about a great many biblical doctrines of eschatology. Follow the Word, not the crowd. William There is more than one beast. In Christ Montana Marv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SINNERSAVED Posted December 17, 2015 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 6 Topic Count: 150 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 2,195 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 2,409 Days Won: 14 Joined: 07/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted December 17, 2015 On 12/16/2015 at 4:01 AM, Montana Marv said: n2thelight Much of Matt 24 was written for Israel's benefit. vs 15 - 20 is defiantly for Israel. Yes the 2nd Coming is after the this time of great distress. This is for the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. But when does the Bridegroom come??? Two separate events. In Christ Montana Marv matthew 24 is written for you and for me , for the here and the now, for he would not state that you will have tribulation for his name sake and to hang on and to watch for the other signs he mentioned, for what is the end of time , before he comes, if it is not given to the reader to read, do you not get it, ? I am going to say this out of LOVE, and many may not agree , but let us have TRUTH so there is no confusion , what is written in the bible , is the inspired words to us and all that believe, and the non believer to mock,' the bible gives the believer insight , and it is foolishness to those that perish, so not only believers read the bible , but the God haters do also , just like we read to learn to the teachings of God and how to live a Godly life, the God rejecting read it to catch the believer in there tracks and to test those that are not able to defend them selves at there own belief, so keep that in your mind, next is what you will not agree with but it is a fact ! there is sections of the bible geared to different group and from the jews , and to the gentiles, yes, this is so, but BUT !! we cannot ever say that any of Gods word was not for us to believe in , and it was for them , or the other people , it is all for us, and we need to accept all that God is putting out for the knowledge and inspiration through the parables to the commandments , to the instructions given from moses and Leviticus, its all relevant, to us, there is nothing we can really dismiss, as throw to the side, and pick and choose like you are at a salad bar ,picking what you will take , and what you will leave behind, we are faced today for your testimony , and what you believe in and why you believe, if this was not so then you would not see , believers around the world being murdered and killed for the faith , and we would not be seeing God ,removed from our society ,and sinful laws passed , and other abominations of God ,that we take for a ordinary way of life, you need to understand scripture, and what God is about, for it is not just a book , of ideas and fantasy ,it is our life, and by the words spoken in it , will send you to judgement of death , or life eternal with the almighty ,everything else in between, is our time to prove what is right to live a Godly Life, and to share the gospel with others, we are not promised a easy life or , a get away pass from tribulation, we are told only those that deny the self and take up there cross will be His people , do you know what it means to take up your cross and follow Jesus, think about that , if we just focus on that and what it all means to you and me in the world we live in, then and only then will you know the truth of God and the cost of following Jesus . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montana Marv Posted December 17, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,136 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 1,091 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/03/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted December 17, 2015 When you see standing in the holy place, those in Judea are to flee to the mountains. Israel. Then the sign of the Son of Man coming in all his Glory. Then the 2nd Coming. For all who see Him. Israel and others who go into the mill Sorry but I am gone according to Rev 3:10. In Christ Montana Marv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamL Posted December 17, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 5,153 Content Per Day: 1.48 Reputation: 2,568 Days Won: 4 Joined: 11/06/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/01/1950 Share Posted December 17, 2015 12 hours ago, n2thelight said: Anti christ is not simply a man nor a man possessed but satan himself...I see you're hung up on the word"man" Let's go to Isaiah and see where satan is indeed called a man ... Isaiah 14:16 "They that see thee shall shall narrowly look upon the, and consider thee, saying. "Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;" So will you deny that the verses above are talking about satan?Yet he is called a man!!!! This is a misunderstanding of the Hebrew word 'iysh, which generally is translated as "man," but can legitimately be translated as "one" -- "is this the one..." Compare Daniel 9:21 : "...while I was speaking in prayer, the 'iysh Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly..." Gabriel is referred to as an 'iysh, yet he is an angel (Luke 1:19, 26), as is Satan. Therefore, the use of this word in Isaiah 14:16 is not proof that Satan is a man, or will become one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted December 18, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.34 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted December 18, 2015 12 hours ago, WilliamL said: You do not teach scriptural doctrine, rather, you teach doctrines of men. That is your opinion, and it is false. Those who believe and accept the truth will have a different opinion, and I'm not really interested in yours. Furthermore, I could invest a lot of time and effort proving your ideas wrong, but that would be a waste of time and effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n2thelight Posted December 18, 2015 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 2 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,139 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 796 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/20/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted December 18, 2015 5 hours ago, WilliamL said: This is a misunderstanding of the Hebrew word 'iysh, which generally is translated as "man," but can legitimately be translated as "one" -- "is this the one..." Compare Daniel 9:21 : "...while I was speaking in prayer, the 'iysh Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly..." Gabriel is referred to as an 'iysh, yet he is an angel (Luke 1:19, 26), as is Satan. Therefore, the use of this word in Isaiah 14:16 is not proof that Satan is a man, or will become one. satan won't become a man,he's coming as who he is satan....look up the many names for him and you should see,antichrist as one of them,as well the man of sin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamL Posted December 18, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 5,153 Content Per Day: 1.48 Reputation: 2,568 Days Won: 4 Joined: 11/06/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/01/1950 Share Posted December 18, 2015 11 hours ago, Ezra said: That is your opinion, and it is false. Those who believe and accept the truth will have a different opinion, and I'm not really interested in yours. Furthermore, I could invest a lot of time and effort proving your ideas wrong, but that would be a waste of time and effort. The whole point of discussion and debate in public forums like this one is to "prove all things," so that lesser-educated people can come to understand and "hold fast to what is good." ! Thes. 5:21 If such a debate "is a waste of [your] time and effort," so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SINNERSAVED Posted December 18, 2015 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 6 Topic Count: 150 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 2,195 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 2,409 Days Won: 14 Joined: 07/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted December 18, 2015 On 12/16/2015 at 9:09 PM, MorningGlory said: I find the following article really explains in pretty good detail; I had to use it when my grandson grilled me on the Rapture and my words failed me. http://jesus-is-savior.com/Believer's%20Corner/Doctrines/rapture.htm Hello MG, I looked at the link you gave me on the rapture, and I actually have read this in the past , and I have to say , it is about pre=trib rap. but the author states he does not know when ? and the scriptures used are really more inline with a post tribe setting if it be in context, so I don't think this link is accurate or justifies its cause, so I will have to stay with the biblical scriptures and in its form of how it is layed out, proves to me that the view of the post is more reasonable and proven to be realible by the bible it self, and not anothers opinion, , so ,why in your own words you do not believe in a post trib, and you follow the pre tri,. I only ask for clarification, if I am not understanding , and I really do want to know , for I am open to hear both sides, and I need more information to come to that conclusion, we have opposite views, and I know why I stand on my view, but I would like to search other scripture if it tells me , another option, thank you MG blessing to you, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n2thelight Posted December 22, 2015 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 2 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,139 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 796 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/20/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted December 22, 2015 (edited) When is the harvest? How does the wheat get pulled out before the tares? Or are you all(rapturist)something other than wheat or tares? Matthew 13:30 "Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn." Matthew 13:38 "The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;" Matthew 13:39 "The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels." Edited December 22, 2015 by n2thelight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts