Guest shiloh357 Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Just now, Butero said: That is like the question over why God doesn't save every man, woman and child on the face of the earth if that is his will. You will have to ask God. Don't you have something from the Bible for that? Or are you content to simply project your own theology on to God??? Why would God not want you to have assurance? Where is that kind of thing revealed in the Bible pertaining to his divine nature? Or are you just going to make things up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Just now, Butero said: But this is a 14 year old and she is sentenced by a loving God to be tormented forever. The rape would be horrible, but it ends. The torments don't end. Sorry, but I don't see that as a reasonable response to such a horrible eternal punishment. But the difference is that a person who rejects Jesus is in hell because of their own decision to reject Jesus. Hell is the consequence for rejecting Jesus. Yes, that is worse than getting raped, but that is beside the point. The point is that according you, she went to hell because God wanted her to go hell and she was raped because God wanted her to be raped. The issue is your view of God's will not the suffering of the little girl. I am getting at why you think the girl went to hell and got raped. According to you, it was purposed by God that both events occur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger Eye Posted December 10, 2015 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 118 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 52 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/20/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/31/1950 Share Posted December 10, 2015 10 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: Why wouldn't God tell if you if you are one of the elect? Why keep you in the dark about that? Why do you keep asking questions and never give any answers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 1 minute ago, Butero said: Let me add one more thing Shiloh. God ordered the children of Israel to go into Canaan and kill every man, woman and male child, as well as all females that weren't virgins. What is the difference there? You can claim this moral outrage all you want, but it makes me wonder if you have ever really taken the time to carefully digest the entire Bible? Yes I have looked at that. God uses nations to judge other nations. God used Israel as a tool to judge the Canaanites. God used the nations to judge Israel. But according YOUR theology, God wanted the Canaanites to sin and to reject him so he could destroy them. It's not about whether or not God causes bad things to happen. He does. No dispute there at all. The problem is that your theology states that God causes people to sin in order to destroy them. That's where you're theology goes off the rails into heresy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 1 minute ago, Butero said: God didn't have to sentence her to hell. The system was his creation. He knew what would happen in the garden when he placed Adam and Eve there with the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. If he really didn't want this to happen, it wouldn't happen. God didn't want it to happen. God didn't create sin. It is irrational to assume that God wants us to sin and then judges for sinning when it was what he wanted. He knew what would happen, but he had a plan to deal with it. God permitted it, he didn't will it or want it. The assumption that God wants sin to happen otherwise he would stop it, is not biblical and is antithetical to God's stated purpose for sending prophets. Why would God send prophets to plead with His people to repent if they are doing what he wants them to do in the first place? Why so many places where God grieves over the sin of his people if he wanted them to commit those sins??? It is irrational to call people to repent and stop doing the very sin you created them to do and want them to do so that you can destroy them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken Posted December 10, 2015 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,379 Content Per Day: 0.43 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted December 10, 2015 15 minutes ago, Butero said: If I died right now, yes. I accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior, and am following him to the best of my ability. If I turn away from him down the road, no. That would mean I wasn't of the elect, but only thought I was. Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall. For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 1:10,11 What things is he speaking of? It isn't a sinner's prayer. I don't know of a " sinner's prayer " other than I know I have sinned and without God's mercy and grace, I am lost and without Him. I rejoice in your faith in His ability to save you from yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken Posted December 10, 2015 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,379 Content Per Day: 0.43 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted December 10, 2015 7 minutes ago, Tiger Eye said: Why do you keep asking questions and never give any answers? It's easier that way ? LOL! ( We're all in the same boat , amen ? ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmbld Posted December 10, 2015 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,491 Content Per Day: 0.54 Reputation: 1,457 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/23/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/02/1971 Share Posted December 10, 2015 1 hour ago, Butero said: In this case, according to OSAS doctrine, this is a gift that requires action on your part, a work. There are other gifts that require action on your part. You could win a radio station cash give away that requires you to be standing by your radio and that you call in within an hour or forfeit the gift. Lets forget about the sinner's prayer for a moment and look at it like this. Instead of faith plus a sinner's prayer, lets say it is faith plus don't commit the sins in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11. That is no different than how you are defending a sinner's prayer not being a work. It is still something you had to do. I believe the "works" that you refer to as being the action on our part, is a result of God's saving grace, creating a "new man" in us, is not works as to contributing to salvation, or even proving salvation, but instead the "works" is a result of God's work in us. Again the action required on our part still is not a credit to us, but a credit to God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Just now, Butero said: I am giving a lot of scripture, and not seeing much in return. I have seen a few scriptures, but when I posted things to counter them, they were ignored. I will tell you what Shiloh. I can give you multitudes of examples throughout the Bible, starting in the Old Testament and continuing into the new, but it will take time because it is a whole lot. I can give you examples of God's showing that he knows what people will do and become before it happens, and this is a consistent pattern, and I can give you scripture on pre-destination and election. It might make for another interesting Soap Box topic, but I assure you or anyone else, I have no shortage of scripture on this subject. If you really desire that, I will start rounding them up. I don't pit the Bible against itself. I don't believe that it is appropriate to try to contradict one Scripture with another. So I am working with the Scriptures you present. So far you really have provided on example of God willing sin to occur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken Posted December 10, 2015 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,379 Content Per Day: 0.43 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted December 10, 2015 Just now, hmbld said: I believe the "works" that you refer to as being the action on our part, is a result of God's saving grace, creating a "new man" in us, is not works as to contributing to salvation, or even proving salvation, but instead the "works" is a result of God's work in us. Again the action required on our part still is not a credit to us, but a credit to God. AMEN ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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