FINDING COMMON GROUND IN DANIEL

[MorningGlory]

22 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

I Hi Morning Glory,

I must say I give you credit for `hanging in there,` & speaking of contemporary nations & Federations. Many people have got stuck in the past & thus are not aware of what is forming today. So to your questions. The Federation that is forming is, as I believe -

The Islamic Federation -

(7) Saudia Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar, United Arab Emirates, (UAE) Oman & Yeman (this year.) This group is called the Gulf Cooperation Council.

(3) Iraq, Syria & Jordan. (ancient Assyria - bringing forth the King of the North) This group is most volatile, as we can well see, with Syria in a civil war, ISIS across the area, Kurds at the north, & Shiites controlling some of Iraq. When a clever mediator steps in & shows that fighting is not the best way to achieve power, but through `peaceful` means, then this area will `fall` under his control. This will be the beginning of his rise to power & the other (7) will eventually come under his control, (10).

The next few years will reveal if this is true or not. I was taught this in the `60`s & `70`s, way before Islam was taken seriously by the world. So I have watched over the years what I had been taught coming to pass. Now the 3 areas, Iraq, Syria & Jordan have come into world focus & it wont be long before we see how events turn out.

 

blessings, Marilyn. 

All I can say is......I'm inclined to agree with your comments......I never did see the Roman Empire regenerating myself.  I have noticed that, for the most part, the actors who walked the world stage in Jesus' time are the same ones that are becoming more prominent on that stage today.  It really WILL be interesting and I don't think we've long to wait.

[MorningGlory]

On 1/9/2016 at 9:16 AM, Serving said:

Since there are four who have replied all up so far, that's good enough reason for me / us to carry on then .. 

 

OUR agreed standard we are going by :

Daniel 7:20 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.

 

Here we go ..

 

 

Last Daze pointed out I had jumped the gun by mentioning the 7 headed dragon in the above .. how it was not mentioned in Daniel 7:20 except by me .. he was right.

Which made me realise maybe not everybody might agree that the head being mentioned above is of the 7 headed dragon of Revelations .. but that's just a hunch, Daze could have just been being thorough, which he was.

Anyway, since 7 years of forums and many hundreds of debates & conversations and reading other's views & conversations, I noticed that pretty much every 'opponent' all agreed, once going through the debating process and after some years of constant exposure to the subject, that the above head is in fact one of the seven heads of the Dragon of Revelations .. that is, one of the seven empires .. just as I agree .. so I just took it for granted that everybody else already agreed, but I might have presumed too much?

Now just because the majority believe something doesn't make it true, Think of Isaiah & Jeremiah & etc etc etc .. so I'm not appealing to authority here, it was just an honest assumption on my part that the head was taken for granted as being of the 7 headed dragon of Revelations.

So already at the start, the HEAD must be confirmed just in case. 

So I will give a very brief account as to WHY I and most others believe Daniel 7:20 is in fact the description of ONE of the heads from the seven headed dragon in Revelations. 

The main reason, first, is that the only other place where HEAD(s) are mentioned that have HORNS on them, besides Daniel, is of course the account of the 7 headed beast in the book of revelations .. so we have an established and exclusive link there already for purposes of working out this 10 horned HEAD with it's "another horn" and what it relates to, since Revelations IS the only other book which deals with HEAD(s) having horns.

And since the 7 headed dragon concerned nations / empires, and revealed therein ONE HEAD of the seven headed beast had, in fact, 10 HORNS on it's HEAD, exactly like in Daniel .. not only that, this head in revelations was in fact shown to be the last empire itself (since only the last empire has the false prophet and beast empire TOGETHER which try to fight Christ at His coming) THEN, the other 6 heads by default, become PAST heads (mountains / empires) for all of us of today.

And if they are PAST head(s), and Daniel speaks of a Head (SINGULAR just like in Revelations 13) with 10 horns .. then obviously those head(s) have to be in Daniels FUTURE ..which is exactly what we see when reading Daniel because those four beasts were told Daniel that they SHALL arise .. shall = to come.

And THAT is the reason why there are only FOUR beasts in Daniels vision .. because out of 7 empires, all we'd expect to see in Daniels future (since he was already in Babylon), would be exactly FOUR empires (heads) left to go .. a perfect match right there. 

Just like king Nebs dream .. why only mention 5 empires and not 7?

Because the previous 2 other empires had already PASSED .. not forgetting Nebs dream only referred to 'what was to come" being explained that his empire nevertheless WAS included in his dream since Neb wondered about his kingdom too, ie, the vision concerned what is to come for Babylon AND in the FUTURE AFTER Babylon and not what was already PAST.

That is a very basic run down as to WHY I mentioned the 7 headed beast prematurely assuming everybody would already agree anyways.

So .. do I need to give a detailed account of the brief explanation above?

Did I even need mention it? (maybe not)??

Do we all agree and shall I begin now?

Please let me know .. thanks guys.

 

 

 

 

I have only one comment....Please stop referring to the Book of Revelation as 'Revelations'.  Its quite jarring to me.  Thanks.

[Marilyn C]

34 minutes ago, MorningGlory said:

All I can say is......I'm inclined to agree with your comments......I never did see the Roman Empire regenerating myself.  I have noticed that, for the most part, the actors who walked the world stage in Jesus' time are the same ones that are becoming more prominent on that stage today.  It really WILL be interesting and I don't think we've long to wait.

Hi MorningGlory,

That`s great that you are watching & seeing what is happening. We know that God has judged all the past World Rulers & the final one He will also.

God bless, sis, great chatting with you. Marilyn.

Edited January 10, 2016 by Marilyn C

[MorningGlory]

4 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi MorningGlory,

That`s great that you are watching & seeing what is happening. We know that God has judged all the past World Rulers & the final one He will also.

God bless, sis, great chatting with you. Marilyn.

[Serving]

Hey guys,

Sorry I haven't been online lately ..

I was thinking .. why don't we just skip Daniel for now to save all the disagreements? .. I mean, seeing there's five different opinions already, it's going to save a lot of time and I don't think we're all going to find any sort of 'common ground' any time soon .. and that's called 'cake in MY face' .. LOL ..

So I'm skipping all the build up and going straight to the end .. I WON"T add any commentary YET .. just the PICTURE first.

The TWO beasts of rev 13 ..

NOTE : BLUE scripture stands for what is the 'first beast' & GREEN scripture for what is the '2nd beast' UP TO A POINT before it becomes THEY ..  and RED stands for the overall description (the generalized SUM) whereas the BLUE & the GREEN are the DETAILS within that 7th head of the 7 headed beast which becomes the 8th and FINAL ..

NOTE : the first beast isn't described until AFTER the RED verse .. also, this is greatly COMPRESSED 'data' as it were that Daniel helps to 'un-zip'.

REV 13

1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast

12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

 

 

This is the SIMPLIFIED picture that I can see .. 'ignoring' the RED verse for now, what we are really looking at are TWO beasts which become ONE beast since the false prophet JOINED the 10 kings .. meaning .. in reality, we are actually dealing with ONE beast being described in TWO parts .. the EMPIRE and It's KING.

 

[Last Daze]

I agree that the beast from the sea with the 7 / 10 can be loosely equivalent to the Empire as you call it, although I see it more as the fallen angel behind it all.  But for conversation sake, we can call it the Empire.  I don't however see the false prophet as joining the 10 kings as you say.  I see him as usurping their authority and cutting their reign short.  I think the 10 horns planned to settle in for the long haul but were rudely awakened when they lost control over their global economic system..  Three took action.  After they were whooped, the rest said, "Yikes!"

• The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they receive authority as kings with the beast for one hour.  Revelation 17:12

I see the false prophet as cutting short the reign of the 10 and becoming the king of the empire.

[WilliamL]

On 1/9/2016 at 6:18 PM, Marilyn C said:

...we know from God`s word that Russia & its Federation get dealt with by God on the mountains of Israel at the beginning of the tribulation. (Ez. 38 & 39)

Ezek. 38:15 “Then you will come from your place out of the far north, you and many peoples with you, all of them riding on horses, a great company and a mighty army." 

So you say that at the beginning of the Tribulation, Russia will equip its whole army with horses? Seriously? Can you provide a whit of evidence for this?

[Serving]

On Saturday, 9 January 2016 at 7:45 AM, Marilyn C said:

Hi Serving,

Now have you ever considered that the `heads` are shared power by leaders. Look at the 3rd beast, the Leopard, one beast, one kingdom, but it had 4 heads. This denotes, I believe shared power of leadership. Then when we see that composite beast of Revelation with 7 heads we can think, well they can be 7 leaders who have had a turn at leadership of the Global Government, in their time. They are consecutive - `5 fallen, one is....` etc.

 

Marilyn.

 

 

 

Hi M,

The thing is this, that 3rd beast's kingdom got divided between 4 generals and soon thereafter was no longer one kingdom anymore but 4 SEPERATE kingdoms warring amongst each other for supremacy before the Greco Roman Empire eventually started taking shape which lead to the eventual emergence of the Roman Empire itself.

Those 4 shared the same body (Leopard) because it is from the same body from whence they emerged, the Leopard itself (Greco Empire) being their shared lineage .. yes they were of the same body, but importantly, they all turned against each other effectively ending that once mighty Greco Empire, that is, their division in effect slayed that mighty Leopard so it was a Leopard no more but 4 separate & opposing beasts.

As for the seven heads, John did say that one 'is' .. meaning to me, that 'one' horn was already active in John's day.

Even though I disagree, it is still an interesting thing you have said nevertheless.

[Serving]

On Sunday, 10 January 2016 at 6:40 AM, MorningGlory said:

I have only one comment....Please stop referring to the Book of Revelation as 'Revelations'.  Its quite jarring to me.  Thanks.

It's funny how the little things annoy isn't it .. but yes, I can do that.

[Serving]

9 hours ago, Last Daze said:

I agree that the beast from the sea with the 7 / 10 can be loosely equivalent to the Empire as you call it, although I see it more as the fallen angel behind it all.  But for conversation sake, we can call it the Empire.  I don't however see the false prophet as joining the 10 kings as you say.  I see him as usurping their authority and cutting their reign short.  I think the 10 horns planned to settle in for the long haul but were rudely awakened when they lost control over their global economic system..  Three took action.  After they were whooped, the rest said, "Yikes!"

• The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they receive authority as kings with the beast for one hour.  Revelation 17:12

I see the false prophet as cutting short the reign of the 10 and becoming the king of the empire.

Maybe 'joining'  was not the correct word to use .. I just meant that they are all 'in on it' together.

Yes I've also thought the uprooting of the 3 brings the other 7 into line too .. the 'yikes' effect at work .. LOL .. 'yikes' .. love it !!

Yes no doubt in my mind that he becomes overall leader but I don't think that the remaining horns lose all their power because rev 19 tells us that the beast (Empire) AND the false prophet get taken together by Christ.

Rev 19:19-20

19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

I do see the 3 uprooted kings likely being replaced by another 3 at the false prophets choosing when he takes the reigns .. either that or the false prophet himself administers those 3 nations personally in their (uprooted 3) stead.