Is the doctrine of the Trinity biblical?

[thereselittleflower]

18 minutes ago, Reinitin said:

I agree. its a huge difference But I think the current worshipping of Mary and baby Jesus is no different now then what Mohammed saw and made his comments on. The pagan perversion of Christ is still very much a reality in our life time.

Well that perception is a different subject and not the subject of this thread.     

[Reinitin]

2 hours ago, Willa said:

No  one preached the Gospel to me.  It was purely divine revelation.  I had never heard any sound teaching. 

Nevertheless when I was saved I only knew that God was alive, aware of me and answering a prayer;  then convicted of sin, righteousness and judgement I confessed my sin, asked forgiveness of God, and believed that He would forgive me because Jesus loves me.  I was then drawn to start reading the Bible.  I was only told that Jesus is God's Son but that he was not God.  This was in 1957.  In 1958 I purchased a new testament and read it.  It was not till 1960-61 that I encountered sound teaching.   In a perfect world I would have had been in a church that taught sound doctrine.  But I was walking in the light given me by God at the time and continued to search for sound teaching and the truth.  God had clearly begun a work in me.  Can you then say that I was not saved?

My family's church, the Disciples of Christ, only taught that "there is no creed but Christ, repent, confess Jesus as Lord, be baptized by immersion, cellebrate the Lord's Supper every sunday, and read the Bible.  Today on their national site they state they no longer require belief in Christ's resurrection to be required for membership "in light of higher criticism".   

I got a hunger and thirst for the word too. I had a need inside me to read daily and as I read the word things would happen in my life that would teach me what i was reading ment. His Spirits counsel was in me and with me. I studied for years before I woke up and saw the "be baptised part":) soon as i saw it was what i was supposed to do I started calling churches to get someone to baptise me.  

[Shar]

On ‎2‎/‎5‎/‎2016 at 6:56 PM, HAZARD said:

7 hours ago, Reinitin said:

"Paganism has hi-jacked christianity and made a religion serving the pagan deity's."    I was not referring to the trinity your refering to.  Even Islam believes in the holy trinity of Father Son and Mary. The pagan system of sun worship had three main aspects: the father, mother, and the son. In ancient Chaldean times, these were the god Bel or Merodach, Ninus the son who was also worshiped as Tammuz, and the female goddess Rhea who was also worshiped as Ishtar, Astarte, or Beltis. She was also referred to as the “queen of heaven,” and the “wrath subduer.”  God actually rebukes Israel for weeping over Tammuz and making cakes to the Queen of heaven. 

Mother and child worship was the basis of the ancient religions. In the various religions of the world, the same system of worship was perpetuated under different names. In Egypt , the mother and child were worshiped as Isis and Osiris or Horus, in India as Isi and Iswara, in China and Japan as the mother goddess Shing-moo with child, in Greece as Ceres or Irene and Plutus, in Rome as Fortuna and Jupitor-puer, or Venus and Adurnis, and in Scandinavia as Frigga and Balder. The mother and child were worshiped in Babylon as Ishtar and Tammuz, and in Phoenicia, as Ashtoreth and Baal. Moreover, the child was worshiped as both husband and son of the mother goddess. 

The male component is a counterfeit of Jesus Christ. The Biblical names used for Jesus were also used for the child in ancient religions. Zoroaster was referred to as the seed, Mithra the Persian sun god was referred to as the Saviour, Dionysus as the sin bearer, Bacchus as the branch, Vishna as the victim man, and Osiris as the king of kings.

 

We Had Anti-Christs in the world perverting God's plan and posturing as Christ before Christ came.

 

 

Try and read all these scriptures before you go off and start accusing me of things untrue.

 

God the Father has a body with bodily parts as we have and this also proves the Father Son and Holy Spirit are not "ONE in body but 'ONE" in unity in all things.

God has a spirit body with bodily parts like a man. This is proved by hundreds of Scriptures that do not need interpretation. God is a Spirit being, infinite, eternal, immutable, self-existent, omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent, invisible, impartial, immortal, absolutly holy, full of wisdom, full of knowledge, and just in all things. God is known in Scripture by over two hundred names. He is describes as being like any other person as to having a body, soul, and spirit (Job 13:8; Heb. 1:3 ;  Dan. 7:9-14 ; 10:5-7).

Dan 7 - Shifts to end times and this is descriptive of Jesus in Rev.1:14.  Jesus has a body   Dan 10 - Is describing the actual angel who came to Daniel that had been hinder by the Prince of Persia for 21 days

 

He is a spirit being with a body (Dan. 7:9-14 ; 10:5-6 ; 9-19 ; Exodus 24:11 ;  Ezek. 1:26-28 , Acts 7:54-59 ; Rev. 4:2-4 ; 5:1 ; 5-7 ; 22:4-5), shape (John 5:37), form (Phil. 2:5-7, same Greek word as in Mark 16:12, which refers to bodily form); and an image and likeness of a man (Gen. 1:26 ; 9:6 ; Ezek. 1:26-28 ; 1 Cor. 11:7, Jas. 3:9; Dan. 7:9-14 ; 10:5-6).

Ex 24:11 God not raising his hand is figurative language for He not exacting punishment on the Leaders, not literally a hand.  Act 7 - Standing at the right hand means a position of authority, not literally a hand; Rev 4 is a likeness of radiance for the one on the throne, not bodily description; Rev 5 is describing Jesus, who has a body, as the root of Jesse; Phil describes Jesus;

He has a heart (Gen. 6:6 ; 8:21). hands and fingers (Exod. 31:18, Psalms 8:3-6, Rev. 5:1 ;  6-7),  Nostrils (Ps. 18:8),  mouth (Num. 12:8), lips and tongue Isa. 30:27, feet (Ezek. 1:27 ; Exodus 24:10); eyes, eyelids, sight (Ps. 11:4 ;  18:24 ; 33:18) ; voice (Ps. 29 ;  Rev. 10:3-4 ; Gen. 1) ; breath (Gen. 2:7) ; ears (Ps. 18:6)  ; head, hair, face, arms (Dan. 7:9-14 ; 10:5-19 ;  Rev. 5:1 ; loins (Ezek. 1:26 ; 28; 8:1-4); bodily presence (Gen. 3:8 ;  18:1-22 ; Job 1:6-12 ; 2:1-7 ;  Exodus 24:10-11  ; and many other bodily parts as required by Him to be a person with a body.

God goes from place to place just like any one else (Gen. 3:8 ; 11:5 ;  18:1-22,  33 ; 19:24 ; 32:24-32 ; 35:13 ;  Zech. 14:5 ;  Titus 2:13). God is omnipresent but not omnibody, that is His presence can be felt everywhere but His body is not everywhere. God wears cloths (Dan. 7:9-14 ; 10:5-19 ;  God eats food (Gen. 18:1-22 ;  Exodus 24:11).

There is not one Scripture in the Bible which states that God is intangible, immaterial, without a body, or bodily parts, and passions except John 4:24, “God is a spirit,” and this certainly does not teach that He is without a body. The difference between Spirit and flesh and bone is substance.

 

The Word, who became flesh, and is now risen, Jesus, now has a glorified flesh and bone body and the scares to prove it;

   Luke 24:39, Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

Jesus will carry the wounds forever as a reminder of what He endured to all throughout eternity future!

Zechariah 13:6, And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.

And where is Jesus now? He is sitting in His glorified flesh and bone body, along side the Father, at His Fathers right hand, in Heaven;

Mark 16:19, "So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God."

Its doesn't say He is inside the Father because they are omnibody?

And where is the Holy Spirit while Jesus is in Heaven with the Father? Look at this, The Holy Spirit, the third person of the Godhead is on the Earth.

John 14:16, And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

Jesus on Earth praying to His Father, Luke 11:12, who was in Heaven. The Father speaking from Heaven about Jesus, Luke 3:22,  who was on the Earth, Jesus returns to The father in Heaven and the Father sends the Holy Spirit, John 14:16,  to the earth.

That makes three separate divine beings. Remember this?

Genesis 1:26, And God said, LET US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Was God talking to Himself? or was He talking to the Word who was in the beginning with God and who was also God, and also the Holy Spirit?

Read all these Scriptures with an open honest heart, asking the Holy Spirit, who has been sent here to the Earth to help and guide us by the Father, who remains in Heaven with Christ sitting at His right hand, until the Father sends Him back to put down all sin and rebellion, and to set up His kingdom, and then, if you do not believe these scriptures, go ahead and call me all the heretics you like.

I started to, and did answer specifically in red, for verses quoted, but the pattern of answer was repeating and it is easier to just state the following.

A lot of the verses you quote are in figurative language, or the verses referenced in books of prophecy are speaking of ends times and the description is that of Jesus or the particular angel that was delivering the message to Ezekiel.  The verse that says God is a Spirit is extremely important.  That is emphatic.  Verses such as pleading for God to listen does not conclude that he has corporeal ears required for Him to hear.

Edited February 7, 2016 by Shar

[Shar]

4 hours ago, Reinitin said:

Yes I did.. If I slowed down and was paying attention it would of said this...Even Islam believes Christians believe in the holy trinity of Father Son and Mary.  Sorry if I was rude it took me a minute to figure out what your problem was.

Glad you clarified that.  I was about to give you some quotes from the Quran showing different.  Yes, they are clearly against the concept of the Trinity.  For God to have a son is considered blasphemy in Islam.  They believe Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary is nothing more than a messenger of God.  They never refer to Him as Son of God, but always "son of Mary" when referring to Jesus.

[Reinitin]

26 minutes ago, Shar said:

I started to, and did answer specifically in red, for verses quoted, but the pattern of answer was repeating and it is easier to just state the following.

A lot of the verses you quote are in figurative language, or the verses referenced in books of prophecy are speaking of ends times and the description is that of Jesus or the particular angel that was delivering the message to Ezekiel.  The verse that says God is a Spirit is extremely important.  That is emphatic.  Verses such as pleading for God to listen does not conclude that he has corporeal ears required for Him to hear.

Not sure why your quoting me. I wasn't even talking to you.

[Shar]

Just now, Reinitin said:

Not sure why your quoting me. I wasn't even talking to you.

People read posts throughout these threads and quote on them, even if they are not directing conversing.  That is how the forum works and how people engage in discussions and become part of them.  If you mean your post to be only for a particular person you need to give them a private message.  And, as always, a respectful reply is encouraged.

[Reinitin]

1 minute ago, Shar said:

People read posts throughout these threads and quote on them, even if they are not directing conversing.  That is how the forum works and how people engage in discussions and become part of them.  If you mean your post to be only for a particular person you need to give them a private message.  And, as always, a respectful reply is encouraged.

I don't understand the " Try and read all these scriptures before you go off and start accusing me of things untrue."  under my quote. I never talked to you before.

[Reinitin]

12 minutes ago, Shar said:

People read posts throughout these threads and quote on them, even if they are not directing conversing.  That is how the forum works and how people engage in discussions and become part of them.  If you mean your post to be only for a particular person you need to give them a private message.  And, as always, a respectful reply is encouraged.

I don't private message men.

[Willa]

On Saturday, February 06, 2016 at 2:28 PM, thereselittleflower said:

Willa, that's not what I'm saying

My conversion to God was as yours.   Purely divine revelation and intervention.   No one preached to me.  No one told me the path to salvation.   God began revealing Himself to me, and my sins. I began reading the New Testament and it began opening up like a flower.   I know as the power of God to reach down and save without any real knowledge of what God is doing or even understanding such things as we are talking about here, such as the Trinity.

But the heart that is thus changed by God will hunger and thirst for truth, for Truth is a Person, and those who have that truth must be willing to impart it or one who has been enlightened by God to salvation may slip away into error to the endangerment of their souls.   Your family's church, by failing to hold to the contents of the Creed, including the Trinity, but only hold to part of what the Gospel teaches, did not properly illumine the path of faith, and so the path was not clearly discerned and they wandered off into error-  now no longer holding the resurrection is a necessary christian belief.

This is why the contents of the Creed and the Trinity are so important -  they light up the path of faith for us, to show us where the path is, to show us its margins so we don't step off like your family's church did and risk becoming lost.

 

 

I so agree with you.  I was not able to grasp a lot of meaning from the Bible except for 1 Cor. 13 until I learned about the Trinity.  Then the Bible was opened to me and I could understand it.  The second thing I needed which I learned about the same time was the gift of salvation.  Knowing it was not something I could earn set me free.  The truth both opens the Bible to us and sets us free.  Gratitude for such a gift produces the fruit of total surrender, spiritual fruit and good works.

 

I also had the experience of practicing the concepts God was teaching me as I read., thus producing understanding and making the Word a part of my life.  It was not "head knowledge",  

[Shar]

6 minutes ago, Reinitin said:

I don't private message men.

I get you.  I am a female and I understand your preference not to do so.

Edited February 7, 2016 by Shar