Biblical Calculations 1. (70 X 7)

[Omegaman 3.0]

On 1/24/2016 at 9:57 PM, Marilyn C said:

may I make a suggestion. If you just post a couple of points then people can more easily read & understand what you are saying & then we can have a fruitful discussion. By posting so much, it just looks like `a dump` of info & people often `jump over` it.

Yep! I sure did, I might have made if about 1/4 of the way, before my eyes glazed over, after that I just sort of skimmed for a while, then jumped big gaps, looking for a summary. Am I lazy? Probably, I don't have that much time to devote a single post, and I suspect I am not alone in this. 

I make large, detailed posts myself sometimes, but it is probably better to give ten small posts, that people can understand or will get about 100% of what you say, that one large post that they will understand or get, 10% of. Just a practical consideration.

In reality, I would probably do better, if I limited mine to what can fit on the screen without scrolling.

[Marilyn C]

15 hours ago, ARGOSY said:

Marilyn, the word "coming" certainly is not restricted to a victory entrance into Jerusalem.  You are squeezing bible wording into your view as if that is the only way. You are seeing way too much into simple wording. Jesus was recognised by some as the Messiah from his baptism. This was his first public appearing to Israel , and he was very well known after that.  Before Palm Sunday, during Palm Sunday, and after Palm Sunday there was some recognition of his status, but that recognition was never universal. You are placing way too much emphasis on the "triumphal entry".

Of all the promises in the bible , the Jew's greatest hope was in a coming Messiah.  Jesus confirmed this promise, surely this confirmation is greater than any other possible "antichrist" confirmation?

And of all the ending of sacrifices, Jesus' being the final sacrificial lamb is the greatest termination of the old sacrifical system in all eternity.  Surely any ending of a sacrificial system by the antichrist would pale in significance?

Knowing that Jesus' ministry was 3.5 years long, started with the greatest confirmation in history (when Jesus and John publicly confirmed the ancient Messianic promise) and ended with the greatest final sacrifice in all eternity, why would you want to see the antichrist in that wording?  ESPecially since Jesus' crucifixion occurred exactly 486.5 years after the decree to restore Jerusalem which was issued in the autumn of 458 BC. Spring 30AD the final lamb sacrifice occurred. Perfect timing!

 

Hi Argosy,

 

You said -

 

`Jesus was recognised by some as the Messiah from his baptism. This was his first public appearing to Israel, and he was very well known after that.`

 

OK. Let`s have a close look at who people thought Jesus was.

 

`When  Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, “Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?”

 

So they said ,”Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, & others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” ….`Then he commanded his disciples that they should tell no one that He was Jesus the Christ (Messiah).` (Matt. 16: 13 – 20)

 

Peter did understand that Jesus was the Messiah, (by the Holy Spirit) but the general population did not know the Jesus was the Messiah & Jesus told His disciples not to tell them. Thus your understanding here, bro, is not correct.

 

 

The triumphal entry is not about Jesus being recognized as the Messiah, but about His APPEARING AS A COMMANDER.

Prince – Heb. word `nagid,` meaning a commander, captain, chief.

 

Someone doing teaching, performing miracles, casting out demons, or raising the dead, etc does not appear as a `commander,` but as a teacher, a prophet. This is exactly what the people thought Jesus was.

However when He comes riding on the back of an animal, with shouts of acclamations into the city of Jerusalem, then people knew that He was presenting Himself as their commander. They thus assumed he was going to command them as an army & get rid of the Roman rule.

As Jesus drew near to Jerusalem He wept over the city.

“If you had known, even you, especially in this your day, the things that make for peace! But how they are hidden from your eyes.” (Luke 19: 42)

 

Israel did not understand Christ`s mission - to bring `peace,` reconciliation back to God. For this He was to die. But Israel only thought in terms of getting rid of the Romans.

That is the importance of the `Palm Sunday` event of Christ appearing as Israel`s commander in Chief. They should have bowed their proud hearts & acknowledge Him as their Lord & Saviour.

 

Marilyn.

 

[ARGOSY]

3 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

 

OK. Let`s have a close look at who people thought Jesus was.

 

`When  Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, “Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?”

 

So they said ,”Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, & others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” ….`Then he commanded his disciples that they should tell no one that He was Jesus the Christ (Messiah).` (Matt. 16: 13 – 20)

 

Peter did understand that Jesus was the Messiah, (by the Holy Spirit) but the general population did not know the Jesus was the Messiah & Jesus told His disciples not to tell them. Thus your understanding here, bro, is not correct.

Marilyn, I said :  Before Palm Sunday, during Palm Sunday, and after Palm Sunday there was some recognition of his status, but that recognition was never universal.    You think you are contradicting my view but you are clearly confirming it.

 

3 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

 

 

 The triumphal entry is not about Jesus being recognized as the Messiah, but about His APPEARING AS A COMMANDER.

 

Prince – Heb. word `nagid,` meaning a commander, captain, chief.

 

Someone doing teaching, performing miracles, casting out demons, or raising the dead, etc does not appear as a `commander,` but as a teacher, a prophet. This is exactly what the people thought Jesus was.

However when He comes riding on the back of an animal, with shouts of acclamations into the city of Jerusalem, then people knew that He was presenting Himself as their commander. They thus assumed he was going to command them as an army & get rid of the Roman rule.

You are placing too much emphasis on ONE PARADE.   This great prophecy about the coming of their eternal Messiah was confirmed at the River Jordan. After this Jesus expressed his command and saved Israel.  He forgave sins and healed Israel. Yes he did not fit into their expectation then, neither did he fit into their expectation during and after the triumphal entry.   At this stage I believe it's best to agree to disagree, we certainly wont change our relative positions, and there is more than enough information in this thread for neutrals to make their choice.

 

As a separate subject, could you at least comment on how well Jesus fits into the 3.5 year period of Daniel 9:27.  The Messianic promise was obviously  fulfilled by Jesus , even at Nazareth Jesus publicly describes himself as fulfilling Isaiah so we do actually have a "confirmed promise". Then 3.5 years later the crucifixion was actually the final sacrificial lamb, effectively ending the significance of the old sacrificial system. This does seem to be a close fit with Daniel 9:27, what are your comments on this?

[Marilyn C]

Hi Argosy,

Yes we are firm on our positions. Now can I just make a point about that phrase `agree to disagree.` I would say `I agree THAT we disagree,` (at this stage) as I know it is not the Lord`s will to disagree but that the Holy Spirit will lead us into all truth.

Are you saying then that there is only 3.5 years in the trib?

Jesus publically described himself fulfilling half the sentence in Isaiah, if that is the one you are referring to.

`......to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord,......` (Isa. 61: 2a) but not `& the Day of vengeance of our God.` (Isa. 61: 2 b)

We could probably move over to the next Biblical Calculations number 2 where I am dealing with the 7 years.

 

Marilyn.

 

 

[ARGOSY]

3 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Argosy,

Yes we are firm on our positions. Now can I just make a point about that phrase `agree to disagree.` I would say `I agree THAT we disagree,` (at this stage) as I know it is not the Lord`s will to disagree but that the Holy Spirit will lead us into all truth.

Are you saying then that there is only 3.5 years in the trib?

Jesus publically described himself fulfilling half the sentence in Isaiah, if that is the one you are referring to.

`......to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord,......` (Isa. 61: 2a) but not `& the Day of vengeance of our God.` (Isa. 61: 2 b)

We could probably move over to the next Biblical Calculations number 2 where I am dealing with the 7 years.

 

Marilyn.

 

 

Great, I will repost in the other thread.  Yes I am saying that there is only 3.5 years in the trib.

[FresnoJoe]

On 1/23/2016 at 1:13 AM, Marilyn C said:

I would like to discuss God`s Biblical calculations in relation to the `end of the times of the Gentiles`

Beloved, Looking At Israel Today

Then I will return to my place until they admit their guilt and turn to me. For as soon as trouble comes, they will earnestly search for me." Hosea 5:15 (New Living Translation)

We May Be Far Closer Than Elder Brother Daniel's God Given Numbers Show

~

Praying For The Salvation Of The Jew

For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? Romans 11:15

Maranatha~!

Love, Your Brother Joe

[Marilyn C]

10 hours ago, FresnoJoe said:

Beloved, Looking At Israel Today

Then I will return to my place until they admit their guilt and turn to me. For as soon as trouble comes, they will earnestly search for me." Hosea 5:15 (New Living Translation)

We May Be Far Closer Than Elder Brother Daniel's God Given Numbers Show

~

Praying For The Salvation Of The Jew

For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? Romans 11:15

Maranatha~!

Love, Your Brother Joe

Hi Bro FrescoJoe,

I agree we are very close to the Lord`s return. And yes the Biblical calculations are for Israel.

Marilyn.

 

[Daniel23]

On January 23, 2016 at 9:57 PM, Marilyn C said:

 

1. What does the first `7 weeks` relate to?  &  

2. 2. `Weeks.` days, months, years?

    

   `Know therefore & understand, that from the going forth of the command to restore & rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince , there shall be 7 weeks & 62 weeks;……`

    

   This 7 weeks refers to the `going forth of the command to restore & rebuild Jerusalem.` Jerusalem had been mostly destroyed by invading Babylonians. Under the Persian kings some restoration had happened, but it was when Nehemiah was given the command by King Artaxerxes of Persia that the rebuilding of the gates & walls commenced.

    

   The time period for this rebuilding was over 49 years – 7 x 7 years. This clearly gives us the understanding that `weeks` in Daniel 9: 24 – 27 refers to a period of years.

    

   `Weeks` -  Heb. `shebuah` meaning sevened. ie. a week (specifically of years) (Strong`s)

    

    

3.  

    

4.  

   Marilyn.

     

Hi Marilyn,

Thanks for bringing up this great thread! I am passionate about Daniel, especially the "sevens" and I ask that you grant me some leeway as I can be quite opinionated and may risk sounding arrogant... But I assure you that is not the case, but rather there are certain things I can't wrap my mind around when discussing the widely accepted interpretation of sevens as weeks of years and the decree as Artaxerxes. I got into this on another post, but could you share your perspective with me on the following questions:

1. How is Artaxerxes granting permission to Nehemiah to go to Jerusalem seen as a decree to rebuild Jerusalem when most of it had already been rebuilt, as this was almost a full 100 years after the Jews returned from exile? (I understand the walls weren't built, but the decree was not to rebuild the walls it was to rebuild the city and the temple. Daniel mentions that these things would be done during the 62 sevens, but not as a reference to the decree.)

2. How can you dismiss the explicit decree of Cyrus (Ezra 1:1-4), as well as God telling Isaiah that Cyrus would be the one to say of Jerusalem, "Let it be rebuilt" (Isaiah 44:28)? 

3. How does it make sense to combine the seven sevens and sixty two sevens when Daniel (or Gabriel) separated them for a reason? 

On a side note, the use of "shabua" (shavua) is in Daniel 9:27... In 24-26 when discussing the plural sevens he uses shavui'ym as a unique masculine plural use of shavua as the typical masculine plural use of shavua would be Shavuot. As a matter of fact the only time that shavui'ym is used in the Old Testament (and the entire bible I believe) is the four times it is used in Daniel 9. The literal translation of shavua is sevens (usually as in a period of sevens). 

Furthermore I would say that if Daniel wanted to use sevens to mean weeks of sevens, he would have likely followed the tradition of the Jubilee by saying seventy sabbath years as it was in Leviticus 25:8. 

Lastly, I hope people can evaluate the possibility that each chapter of Daniel should be taken and examined separately as these prophecies were sometimes decades apart and though some language may seem similar, the context is different and these prophecies are meant to stand on their own.  When we combinine them with days and weeks and years from other unrelated prophecies, we confuse the message and our readers. 

I have a detailed post on this subject on my site, but I will tell you that my revelation into Daniel showed me that the seven "shavui'ym" were seven months with seven... The sixty-two shavui'ym were sixty-two years with sevens... And the final seven? Was a literal week. This solves virtually all the issues with the current interpretations.

I will be glad to share it with you, because it leads from the decree of Cyrus in 538BC to seven days before Passover in 34BC as the start of the final seven. 

Be Blessed,

 

Daniel

 

 

 

[Marilyn C]

Hi Daniel23,

Nice to meet you. I did read your post in the welcome section & also on another thread in this eschatology section. Now you have asked a few questions & I will get back to you soon.

BTW nice to have another `face,` in this section. I think those here are all passionate about what we think, but endeavour to treat each other as bro & sis. Looking forward to discussing with you.

Blessings, Marilyn.

Edited April 30, 2016 by Marilyn C

[Daniel23]

Thanks Marilyn! I look forward to it too. I mean we're here to help each other and hopefully turn some hearts towards Jesus. Just because we may find differences in opinion, should be a divisive factor. After all, there is but one Authority and I believe we're all trying to do our best by Him. This is a tough subject, as there is a lot of belief of end times prophecy that uses some of this for its foundation. I just hope we can just do all we can do to bring Glory to God by understanding His word as He intended it... Not as we have been taught nor to bring glory to ourselves. It seems that our intentions are inline with His... So only good can come from this discussion. God Bless! 

 

Your Brother in Christ,

 

Daniel