fulfilled feasts

[Qnts2]

8 minutes ago, Joline said:

I disagree with you concerning the "Jewish view" of scripture. I believe you have a "Rabbinic view" of scripture. There is a big difference there.

Also you are bringing things up which span several covenants, which sit distinct from the Sinai covenant. Also, nobody said they do not speak of Israels future too. Israels faithlessness in the rulers of the first century, in no way nullifies the promises made to Abraham by God. Nor does it make the fulfillment of them without effect.  As Paul explains here

Ro 3:3  For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
Hebrews also teaches us that Christ atoned for our sin as high priest.

Heb 1:3  Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Heb 10:12  But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

His heavenly ministry and the reality of it, is what the power of the resurrection is about. For again Hebrews teaches us

Heb 8:4  For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:

If Christ is not raised, he is not a priest at all.  He does not need to die on the day of atonement to fulfill that ministry in his heavenly priesthood.

And Hebrews also shows us Abraham is looking for a heavenly city, not an earthly one.

Heb 3:1  Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
Heb 6:4  For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 9:23  It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
Heb 11:16  But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
Heb 12:22  But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

And we are off on saying Messianic Judaism has a Rabbinic view of scripture again. (It was a constant criticism of Messianic Judaism having a Rabbinic view from the other forum). Most people here know I object to misrepresentations among Christians. 

Messianic Judaism has a Jewish view of scripture. Messianic Judaism with Messianic Jews is familiar with the view of Judaism as many were raised in Judaism. Sometimes the Rabbi's had it right and sometimes the Rabbis had it wrong. Clearly Messianic Jews reject the view of Judaism concerning Jesus and reject other views of Judaism seen as contrary to scripture, both Old and New. Messianic Jews do keep some Rabbinic traditions which do not conflict with scripture, but that is due to ethnicity/having grown up with those traditions and having Jewish family, many who are not saved.  Coming from a different culture, and reading the NT before attending a church, I know that Christianity has it's own language, culture and traditions which are not in scripture. (For example on language, Christianese says we fellowship, but not just visit. And some say we do 'pot blessings' and not pot lucks. There are many many more which are unique in Christian churches which are not used elsewhere. I know because I had to figure out what Christians were saying with their unique Christianese words. )

 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Shar said:

Not really.  If one has an understanding of all of God's Festivals, which he states are everlasting, you can see their fulfillment.  Christ has two comings.  In His first coming, The Passover, Feast of Unleavened Bread, First Fruits were fulfilled, and Shavuot at Pentecost.   In His second coming, and most specific to His return, His promise to Israel and His Davidic reign, the Feast of Trumpets, Yom Kippur and Succoth will be fully realized.  I would deeply encourage you to read about these Feasts and a very good book to start with is, "The Feasts of the Lord" by Kevin Howard and Marvin Rosenthal.  This gives a very clear understanding of them in Old and New Testaments, their purpose, their meaning and their times of fulfillment.  There is no conjecture, but a full understanding to God's Feasts.  God calls them His appointed times and they carry great significance to the times He has designated for His eternal plan and purposes.

Read it again

Heb 8:4  For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:

Heb 3:1  Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
 

The power of the resurrection is the power of his heavenly priesthood. His work as our high priest is not without effect.

9  But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
 

[Shar]

9 minutes ago, Joline said:

I disagree with you concerning the "Jewish view" of scripture. I believe you have a "Rabbinic view" of scripture. There is a big difference there.

Also you are bringing things up which span several covenants, which sit distinct from the Sinai covenant. Also, nobody said they do not speak of Israels future too. Israels faithlessness in the rulers of the first century, in no way nullifies the promises made to Abraham by God. Nor does it make the fulfillment of them without effect.  As Paul explains here

Ro 3:3  For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
Hebrews also teaches us that Christ atoned for our sin as high priest.

Heb 1:3  Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Heb 10:12  But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

His heavenly ministry and the reality of it, is what the power of the resurrection is about. For again Hebrews teaches us

Heb 8:4  For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:

If Christ is not raised, he is not a priest at all.  He does not need to die on the day of atonement to fulfill that ministry in his heavenly priesthood.

And Hebrews also shows us Abraham is looking for a heavenly city, not an earthly one.

Heb 3:1  Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
Heb 6:4  For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 9:23  It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
Heb 11:16  But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
Heb 12:22  But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

I don't get the point of all your scripture quotes.  I never quote anything Rabbinic.  My understanding of scripture comes right out of the Word of God.  No one doubts the final and complete atoning sacrifice of Christ for ALL who believe.  Your position stems more out of not fully understanding the purpose and meaning of the Feasts of God, which He calls His appointed times.  That very significant events around  His plans and purposes center around His Appointed Times.  The Jews did not make up these Feasts.  God appointed and mandated them.  I would seek my best to get to know them.

If you really want to understand Messianic Judaism and why they place a significance on these Feasts, I recommend the same book to you that I recommended to LittleFlower; "The Feasts of the Lord", by Kevin Howard and Marvin Rosenthal.  It will open up a clear understanding of God's Feasts and their purposes.

 

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, thereselittleflower said:

The Day of Atonement is about sacrifice.

We can't get away from sacrifice if we are talking about the Day of Atonement.

 

Yes, it is also about the fulfillment of the promises made to Abraham.

Ge 17:4  As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.
Ge 17:5  Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.
Ge 17:6  And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.

Lu 24:47  And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Ro 1:5  By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
Ro 4:17  (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
 

The Gospel is about God's faithfulness to keep his promises made to ABRAHAM

Ro 4:16  Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
Ro 4:18  Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
 

These many nations have received NATIONAL atonement.

Edited February 7, 2016 by Joline

[Shar]

7 minutes ago, Joline said:

Read it again

Heb 8:4  For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:

Heb 3:1  Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
 

The power of the resurrection is the power of his heavenly priesthood. His work as our high priest is not without effect.

9  But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
 

What is your point?  This has nothing to do with the Feasts that are a topic of discussion.  We know He is the Great High Priest in the Heavenly Temple.

[Shar]

12 minutes ago, Qnts2 said:

And we are off on saying Messianic Judaism has a Rabbinic view of scripture again. (It was a constant criticism of Messianic Judaism having a Rabbinic view from the other forum). Most people here know I object to misrepresentations among Christians. 

Messianic Judaism has a Jewish view of scripture. Messianic Judaism with Messianic Jews is familiar with the view of Judaism as many were raised in Judaism. Sometimes the Rabbi's had it right and sometimes the Rabbis had it wrong. Clearly Messianic Jews reject the view of Judaism concerning Jesus and reject other views of Judaism seen as contrary to scripture, both Old and New. Messianic Jews do keep some Rabbinic traditions which do not conflict with scripture, but that is due to ethnicity/having grown up with those traditions and having Jewish family, many who are not saved.  Coming from a different culture, and reading the NT before attending a church, I know that Christianity has it's own language, culture and traditions which are not in scripture. (For example on language, Christianese says we fellowship, but not just visit. And some say we do 'pot blessings' and not pot lucks. There are many many more which are unique in Christian churches which are not used elsewhere. I know because I had to figure out what Christians were saying with their unique Christianese words. )

 

AMEN Q. 

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Shar said:

What is your point?  This has nothing to do with the Feasts that are a topic of discussion.  We know He is the Great High Priest in the Heavenly Temple.

 

7 minutes ago, Shar said:

AMEN Q. 

This what I meant when I said you had a rabbinic view. The feasts are all about the priesthood. they cannot be kept without it. As well as the fact they make atonement for sin. Rabbinic Judaism always diminishes the priesthood.

[Shar]

Just now, Joline said:

 

This what I meant when I said you had a rabbinic view. The feasts are all about the priesthood. they cannot be kept without it. As well as the fact they make atonement for sin. Rabbinic Judaism always diminishes the priesthood.

You definitely do not have an understanding of the Feasts.  The Feasts are all about the Messiah, His First and Second Comings.  It does not diminish the priesthood, because Jesus, the Messiah, is the Priest!  Also, your constant comment about me having a Rabbinic view, shows me you don't understand what Rabbinic is either.

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, Qnts2 said:

And we are off on saying Messianic Judaism has a Rabbinic view of scripture again. (It was a constant criticism of Messianic Judaism having a Rabbinic view from the other forum). Most people here know I object to misrepresentations among Christians. 

Messianic Judaism has a Jewish view of scripture. Messianic Judaism with Messianic Jews is familiar with the view of Judaism as many were raised in Judaism. Sometimes the Rabbi's had it right and sometimes the Rabbis had it wrong. Clearly Messianic Jews reject the view of Judaism concerning Jesus and reject other views of Judaism seen as contrary to scripture, both Old and New. Messianic Jews do keep some Rabbinic traditions which do not conflict with scripture, but that is due to ethnicity/having grown up with those traditions and having Jewish family, many who are not saved.  Coming from a different culture, and reading the NT before attending a church, I know that Christianity has it's own language, culture and traditions which are not in scripture. (For example on language, Christianese says we fellowship, but not just visit. And some say we do 'pot blessings' and not pot lucks. There are many many more which are unique in Christian churches which are not used elsewhere. I know because I had to figure out what Christians were saying with their unique Christianese words. )

 

Why is it that you take disagreement as a misrepresentation? I could say the same of You qnts. Yes we disagree on many things.  And yes, Messianic Judaism does have a rabbinic view. Not all Jews in first century were Pharisees. There were various "Jewish views" in the first century. No I disagree with Rabbinics and what it teaches. Just like you disagree with historical Christian views. No surprise here.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Shar said:

You definitely do not have an understanding of the Feasts.  The Feasts are all about the Messiah, His First and Second Comings.  It does not diminish the priesthood, because Jesus, the Messiah, is the Priest!  Also, your constant comment about me having a Rabbinic view, shows me you don't understand what Rabbinic is either.

I understand you disagree with my understanding. The feasts being all about Messiah, includes Messiahs priesthood. That is what I see missing from your point of view. But I cannot say I am surprised at that. Rabbinic Judaism also diminishes the role and importance of the priesthood as well.