Jesus` Kingship.

[Marilyn C]

Hi Retro,

Here is your other comment.

Marilyn said -Thank you for those great scriptures. Yes I also believe that the Lord`s rule will be on the earth, however I was pointing out that the source of His Kingship is not of this earth as He said.

Retro  said- IS NOT RIGHT!!! He NEVER said that!!! Show me ONE place that He said anything like that!

The source of Christ`s Kingship is the very throne of God. David in the Psalms tells us of this throne -

`Your throne O God, is for ever & ever; a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of your kingdom.` (ps. 45: 6)

 

Marilyn.

 

 

[Retrobyter]

15 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Retro,

Daniel 4: 37 `Now I, Nebuchadnezzar, praise & extol & honour the KING OF HEAVEN, all of whose works are truth, & His ways justice.`

KING -  Heb. `melek,` (king)  HEAVEN - Heb. `shamayin,` (heaven)

As the Holy Spirit wrote the Bible I have to believe Him, Retro. And I think you are treading on dangerous ground regarding the trinity. And that is something not to be disputed. The Lord Jesus Christ was, is & ever shall be part of the Godhead.

Marilyn.

 

Shalom, Marilyn C.

And I think that YOU are treading on dangerous ground taking the FATHER'S title and transferring it to the SON of God WITHOUT BIBLICAL AUTHORITY TO DO SO! And, THAT is something not to be disputed! Our Master, Yeshua`, the Messiah of God, is God's REPRESENTATIVE and WAS the WORD who was "with God and was God" and IS NOW "made flesh and dwelt among us" and who is resurrected as a new body! I absolutely believe the Holy Spirit (the Ruach haQodesh) and believe the Bible! But, I do NOT believe man's TWISTING of the Bible to come up with the weave of theological webbing that we have today! Those are the words of HUMAN authors who have tread on dangerous ground since the 300s!

Look, I am not disrespecting the Master. I DO recognize His origin! However, I also recognize His "incarnation" as being a "BECOMING flesh," not just a "being clothed with flesh!" And, I do NOT recognize an "eternal Sonship!" I believe that there was a specific point in time when Yeshua` (Jesus) BECAME God's Son!

Psalm 2:1-12
1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,
3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.
5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.
6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; THIS DAY have I begotten thee.
8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
11 Serve the Lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.
KJV

Also, the significance of His Sonship is in the prophecy to David:

2 Samuel 7:8-16
8 Now therefore so shalt thou say unto my servant David, Thus saith the Lord of hosts, I took thee from the sheepcote, from following the sheep, to be ruler over my people, over Israel:
9 And I was with thee whithersoever thou wentest, and have cut off all thine enemies out of thy sight, and have made thee a great name, like unto the name of the great men that are in the earth.
10 Moreover I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime,
11 And as since the time that I commanded judges to be over my people Israel, and have caused thee to rest from all thine enemies. Also the Lord telleth thee that he will make thee an house.
12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.
13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.
14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:
15 But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee.
16 And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever.
KJV

1 Chronicles 17:7-14
7 Now therefore thus shalt thou say unto my servant David, Thus saith the Lord of hosts, I took thee from the sheepcote, even from following the sheep, that thou shouldest be ruler over my people Israel:
8 And I have been with thee whithersoever thou hast walked, and have cut off all thine enemies from before thee, and have made thee a name like the name of the great men that are in the earth.
9 Also I will ordain a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, and they shall dwell in their place, and shall be moved no more; neither shall the children of wickedness waste them any more, as at the beginning,
10 And since the time that I commanded judges to be over my people Israel. Moreover I will subdue all thine enemies. Furthermore I tell thee that the Lord will build thee an house.
11 And it shall come to pass, when thy days be expired that thou must go to be with thy fathers, that I will raise up thy seed after thee, which shall be of thy sons; and I will establish his kingdom.
12 He shall build me an house, and I will stablish his throne for ever.
13 I will be his father, and he shall be my son: and I will not take my mercy away from him, as I took it from him that was before thee:
14 But I will settle him in mine house and in my kingdom for ever: and his throne shall be established for evermore.
KJV

Psalm 97:7
7 Confounded be all they that serve graven images, that boast themselves of idols: worship him, all ye gods.
KJV

Hebrews 1:5-6
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, THIS DAY have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
KJV

These verses MAY have applied to Shlomoh (Solomon), IF he had been able to follow God's will, but he couldn't and was disqualified. HOWEVER, his DESCENDANT, Yeshua` the Messiah of God, WAS able to do God's will because of His origins, and the prophecy passed to HIM! TWICE it was said of Him, on the day of His baptism ...

Matthew 3:16-17
16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
KJV

Mark 1:9-11
9 And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan.
10 And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:
11 And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
KJV

Luke 3:21-22
21 Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened,
22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.
KJV

... and on the mount of transfiguration:

Matthew 17:1-9
1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
6 And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid.
7 And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid.
8 And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only.
9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.
KJV

Mark 9:2-10
2 And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them.
3 And his raiment became shining, exceeding white as snow; so as no fuller on earth can white them.
4 And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.
5 And Peter answered and said to Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
6 For he wist not what to say; for they were sore afraid.
7 And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.
8 And suddenly, when they had looked round about, they saw no man any more, save Jesus only with themselves.
9 And as they came down from the mountain, he charged them that they should tell no man what things they had seen, till the Son of man were risen from the dead.
10 And they kept that saying with themselves, questioning one with another what the rising from the dead should mean.
KJV

Luke 9:28-36
28 And it came to pass about an eight days after these sayings, he took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray.
29 And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering.
30 And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:
31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.
32 But Peter and they that were with him were heavy with sleep: and when they were awake, they saw his glory, and the two men that stood with him.
33 And it came to pass, as they departed from him, Peter said unto Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias: not knowing what he said.
34 While he thus spake, there came a cloud, and overshadowed them: and they feared as they entered into the cloud.
35 And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.
36 And when the voice was past, Jesus was found alone. And they kept it close, and told no man in those days any of those things which they had seen.
KJV

2 Peter 1:15-18
15 Moreover I will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease to have these things always in remembrance.
16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
KJV

So, THIS is why He is called the "Son of God." In eternity past, He was known as the Word, not "God the Son!" And, NOW we can say,

Hebrews 13:5
8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
KJV

Yeshua` is the Messiah - the Anointed One - of God "yesterday," that is, during His first 33 years, "to day" when the author of Hebrews wrote these words, and "for ever" because He was raised to life by God His Father (Acts 3:15; Rom. 6:4) and He "ever liveth to make intercession" for us (Heb. 7:25).

[Retrobyter]

On March 7, 2016 at 8:31 AM, FresnoJoe said:

~

Amen~!

Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. 1 Corinthians 12:3

And Amen~!

I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. Isaiah 42:8

Jesus Is LORD~!

Love, Your Brother Joe

Shalom, Brother Fresnojoe.

Thank you for the quotation from Isaiah 42:8. That verse is God's, the FATHER'S, words. But, can you understand how this verse can be compatible with these following verses, when GOD is the Father and Yeshua` (Jesus) is the SON of God?

John 5:21-23
21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
KJV

Remember: I don't deny ANY of these verses and believe them COMPLETELY!

[Marilyn C]

Hi Retro,

Ah, I see what you are saying here - Quote

`Look, I am not disrespecting the Master. I DO recognize His origin! However, I also recognize His "incarnation" as being a "BECOMING flesh," not just a "being clothed with flesh!" And, I do NOT recognize an "eternal Sonship!" I believe that there was a specific point in time when Yeshua` (Jesus) BECAME God's Son! `

OK then let`s look at that point – Christ`s `eternal Sonship.`

Father & Son, in the Godhead denote relationship & identity with deity -  express image of personality, the exact substance of entity in mind, will & heart, & the entire oneness of Being in wisdom & work.

In Hebrews we read of the Lord in His eternal sonship as - the everlasting Being who brought everything that is visible into existence, the One who is creator, & upholder of all things by the word of His power.

`who being the brightness of His glory & the express image of His person, & upholding all things by the word of His power,...`(Heb. 1: 3)

Then we read of Christ`s manifestation upon the earth in human form where He had to learn as a son, Son of Man & Son of God, obedience even unto death.

`though he was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. ` (Heb. 5: 8)

I can understand why you think as you do Retro, however the term sonship & Father are not borrowed from earthly relationships but existed in celestial relationships before the world was. `The express image,` is a Father / Son relationship.

Marilyn.

 

[WilliamL]

Col. 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. 18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence. 19 For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell, 20 and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.

Col. 2:9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; 10 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power.

Heb. 1:1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; 3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high.

Isaiah 55:11 So shall My Word be that goes forth from My mouth;
He shall not return to Me void,
But He shall accomplish what I please,
And He shall prosper in the thing for which I sent Him.

The Son is the Going-Forth of the Divine. Before the Going-Forth, there was only perfect Union, something which we cannot really comprehend. The concept of "Persons" did not exist as such, because in Union there is no division at all, and neither is there time.

[Marilyn C]

KING OF KINGS.

 

`...on His head were many crowns.....And He had on His robe & on His thigh a name written: King of kings & Lord of lords.` (Rev. 19: 12 & 16)

 

None but Christ could ever lay claim to seven kingships –

 

King of the Nations,

King of the Jews,

King of Israel,

King of Righteousness,

King of the Ages,

King of Heaven,

King of Glory,

 

and over & above all, King of kings.

 

Such a range of regality was never before held by any monarch, for every realm of importance is included – racial, national, spiritual, historical, celestial & supernal.

 

His authority is trustworthy as it comes from His holy character – goodness, faithfulness, righteousness & holiness all form the foundation of His administration.

 

Upon this King of kings is the stupendous task of administering the power which governs innumerable starry constellations, the myriads of hierarchies of angels, & the millions & millions of perfected saints.

 

The gathering of His celestial court is awe-inspiring & when the investiture of the King of kings is unveiled before the greatest assembly of admirers, what an acclamation of praise will resound from heaven & earth.

 

One day we will be among that number & as Thomas Kelly so aptly wrote –

 

`Look ye saints! The sight is glorious:

See the Man of sorrows now,

From the fight returned victorious:

Every knee to Him shall bow.

Crown Him! Crown Him! Crown Him! Crown Him!

Crowns become the Victor`s brow.

 

Hark! Those bursts of acclamation!

Hark! Those loud triumphant chords!

Jesus takes the highest station;

O what joy the sight affords,

Crown Him! Crown Him! Crown Him! Crown Him!

King of kings and Lord of lords.

 

 

Marilyn.