pre trib rapture is fake true or false

[Ezra]

40 minutes ago, 7Dove77 said:

From what I understand from scripture,

The saints need to be (sealed),with Gods Word,before going through the Tribulation. 

Christians are sealed with the Holy Spirit when they are saved. And the Tribulation is for the unbelieving and the ungodly.

[SINNERSAVED]

50 minutes ago, Ezra said:

Christians are sealed with the Holy Spirit when they are saved. And the Tribulation is for the unbelieving and the ungodly.

stop teaching what is not biblical,  !!

matthew 24 , Jesus said they will hate you for they hated me , you will have tribulation, and persecution, but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world , and they will kill you for my name sake, so there is tribulation , being filled with the holy spirit , does not give you a pass not to be hurt, suffer or anything like that,  false teaching is not allowed, ?

 how did the apostles die then ,and Beaten, and they were all filled ,with the holy spirit , ?

what about our brothers and sisters in the lord, attacked by isis , and others hating the Christians,  was they not filled with the holy spirit , ? you need to apologize, or take back what you said, it is in the bible scriptures, that we will suffer,  and if you say they don't , then are you really helping to save them when they have to go through  it , will they be prepared,

 we do not give any advise that could cost a person salvation , or turn from God, we are here to love and build up , and assure them , as the bible states, He that endures until the end shall be saved,  period,

Note , Jesus was baptized, and filled with the Holy spirit , and then went to the cross, ? and many more,

the scripture says that they did not love their lives to death ? they gave it for the glory of God ? why are we the salt and the light of the world, if we are not filled with the spirit ??

 , then who is the light filled, saints, and the saints, go through tribulation, in revelation ,it said that the  saints were given over to be over come for 42 months ???? the saints are spirit filled believers,... if I am reading my bible correctly ? thank you

[n2thelight]

1 hour ago, Ezra said:

Christians are sealed with the Holy Spirit when they are saved. And the Tribulation is for the unbelieving and the ungodly.

Are you serious?   Soooo, Christians that have been going through tribulations since forever,are you saying they were not saved?

What does tribulation mean to you?

[Ezra]

26 minutes ago, SINNERSAVED said:

stop teaching what is not biblical,  !!

SS, I believe I will be reporting you and your attacks, especially since you continue to promote your false doctrines.  

Since you claim that the Tribulation period is for the Church, you must now PROVE IT from Scripture.  Show us exactly from the Bible where it says that the Tribulation period (which is a part of Daniel's 70th week) is for the Church. And if you cannot, then publicly apologize.

I have said again and again that the trials, tribulations, testings, afflictions, and martyrdom of Christians since 30 AD has always been a fact of life.  They are true even as we speak.  But the Tribulation -- a specific period of time in the future, called "the time of Jacob's trouble" -- is for the unbelieving and the ungodly.

If the entire Church (the Body of Christ) was to be beheaded and martyred during the time of the Antichrist, it would certainly be noted somewhere in the New Testament.  There will be Tribulation saints (people saved under the preaching of the two witnesses) but that does not constitute the Church.

 

 

[7Dove77]

Rev 7;9)-After this I beheld,and,lo,a great multitude,which no man could number ,of all nations,and kindreds,and people,and tongues,stood before the throne,and before the lamb,clothed with white robes,and palms in their hands.

 

Rev, 7;3)-One of the Elders answered,saying unto me,

What are these which are arrayed in white robes?

and whence came they?

 

Rev. 7;14)-And I said unto him,

Sir,thou knowest,And he said to me,

THESE  are they which came out of the GREAT TRIBULATION.

and have WASHED  their ROBES, ,and made them WHITE  in the BLOOD OF JESUS.

 

Ezra,Where in these scriptures,does it say,that the Tribulation,is for the un-believers,recieving wrath?...............

One cannot come out of something,unless they ENTERED THROUGH it

 

My scripture understanding,looking at these scriptures,.Shows me,....He shall gather together His Elect from the four winds from the utter part of the EARTH,(mark 13;27).

From where?   (From earth).Which documents-they lived through the TRIBULATION.

And who is with Christ?............Those who were (Sealed/Redeemed)

 

Daniel 7;22)-Untill the ANCIENT OF DAYS came,and judgement was givin to the SAINTs of the MOST HIGH,and the time came that the SAINTS POSSESSED THE KINGDOM..!!

 

To my understanding,of Gods Word;

The 9Elect) or (saints) are not  "Killed " going through the tribulation,

" KILLED " Strongs Word (615) which comes from the base  of (575),which means,"SEPERATION "

 

Ezra,

Blessings to you,And with Gods Grace,  7Dove77

[Ezra]

10 minutes ago, 7Dove77 said:

Ezra,Where in these scriptures,does it say,that the Tribulation,is for the un-believers,recieving wrath?...............

One cannot come out of something,unless they ENTERED THROUGH it

7Dove77,

"Come out" can be interpreted as (a) have escaped or (b) have gone through and come out.  I believe (a) is the correct understanding.  To answer your question properly please go through this explanation below:

Question: "What is the Tribulation? How do we know the Tribulation will last seven years?"

Answer: The tribulation is a future seven-year period of time when God will finish His discipline of Israel and finalize His judgment of the unbelieving world. The church, made up of all who have trusted in the person and work of the Lord Jesus to save them from being punished for sin, will not be present during the tribulation. The church will be removed from the earth in an event known as the rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 1 Corinthians 15:51-53). The church is saved from the wrath to come (1 Thessalonians 5:9). Throughout Scripture, the tribulation is referred to by other names such as the Day of the Lord (Isaiah 2:12; 13:6-9; Joel 1:15;2:1-31; 3:14; 1 Thessalonians 5:2); trouble or tribulation (Deuteronomy 4:30; Zephaniah 1:1); the great tribulation, which refers to the more intense second half of the seven-year period (Matthew 24:21); time or day of trouble (Daniel 12:1; Zephaniah 1:15); time of Jacob's trouble (Jeremiah 30:7).

An understanding of Daniel 9:24-27 is necessary in order to understand the purpose and time of the tribulation. This passage speaks of 70 weeks that have been declared against “your people.” Daniel's people are the Jews, the nation of Israel, and Daniel 9:24 speaks of a period of time that God has given “to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy.” God declares that “seventy sevens” will fulfill all these things. This is 70 sevens of years, or 490 years. (Some translations refer to 70 weeks of years.) This is confirmed by another part of this passage in Daniel. In verses 25 and 26, Daniel is told that the Messiah will be cut off after “seven sevens and sixty-two sevens” (69 total), beginning with the decree to rebuild Jerusalem. In other words, 69 sevens of years (483 years) after the decree to rebuild Jerusalem, the Messiah will be cut off. Biblical historians confirm that 483 years passed from the time of the decree to rebuild Jerusalem to the time when Jesus was crucified. Most Christian scholars, regardless of their view of eschatology (future things/events), have the above understanding of Daniel's 70 sevens.

With 483 years having passed from the decree to rebuild Jerusalem to the cutting off of the Messiah, this leaves one seven-year period to be fulfilled in terms of Daniel 9:24: “to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy.” This final seven-year period is known as the tribulation period—it is a time when God finishes judging Israel for its sin.

Daniel 9:27 gives a few highlights of the seven-year tribulation period: “He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.” The person of whom this verse speaks is the person Jesus calls the “abomination that causes desolation” (Matthew 24:15) and is called “the beast” in Revelation 13. Daniel 9:27says that the beast will make a covenant for seven years, but in the middle of this week (3 1/2 years into the tribulation), he will break the covenant, putting a stop to sacrifice.Revelation 13 explains that the beast will place an image of himself in the temple and require the world to worship him. Revelation 13:5 says that this will go on for 42 months, which is 3 1/2 years. Since Daniel 9:27 says that this will happen in the middle of the week, and Revelation 13:5 says that the beast will do this for a period of 42 months, it is easy to see that the total length of time is 84 months or seven years. Also see Daniel 7:25, where the “time, times, and half a time” (time=1 year; times=2 years; half a time=1/2 year; total of 3 1/2 years) also refers to “great tribulation,” the last half of the seven-year tribulation period when the beast will be in power.

For further references about the tribulation, see Revelation 11:2-3, which speaks of 1260 days and 42 months, and Daniel 12:11-12, which speaks of 1290 days and 1335 days. These days have a reference to the midpoint of the tribulation. The additional days in Daniel 12 may include the time at the end for the judgment of the nations (Matthew 25:31-46) and time for the setting up of Christ's millennial kingdom (Revelation 20:4-6).

In summary, the Tribulation is the 7-year time period in the end times in which humanity's decadence and depravity will reach its fullness, with God judging accordingly.

http://www.gotquestions.org/tribulation.html

[Ezra]

27 minutes ago, n2thelight said:

Are you serious?   Soooo, Christians that have been going through tribulations since forever,are you saying they were not saved?

What does tribulation mean to you?

See below.  The tribulations of Christians and the Tribulation period of the unsaved and ungodly are two different things.

[n2thelight]

7 minutes ago, Ezra said:

See below.  The tribulations of Christians and the Tribulation period of the unsaved and ungodly are two different things.

What's the difference?

[7Dove77]

Ezra,

,Im Steadfast on my understanding,of Gods Word,

this would be were we can agree,to,disagree,Respectfully,

Blessings to you,With Gods Grace,,,,7Dove77

[TrevorL]

Greetings again WilliamL and Ezra,

14 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Which concepts place you among those who spiritualize-away passages that don't suit their doctrines.

I claim that my understanding is based upon many Scriptures and the simple literal interpretation of these, or simply what these directly state.

14 hours ago, WilliamL said:

During the period of "the great day of His Wrath" (Rev. 6:17), which includes all of the Trumpets and Bowls judgments, this earth will become a very undesirable (to say the least) place to be. "Those who are ready" at his return/coming -- the wise virgins of Matt. 25:10 -- will go in with the Bridegroom to the heavenly wedding.

I agree that the faithful will be united with Christ at his coming. I differ in my understanding of the detail that you present.

9 hours ago, Ezra said:

How can it be an "excellent observation" when it denies the truth that the saints are indeed in Heaven at this very moment?

You have correctly assessed my understanding. As 1 Thessalonians 4 states those taken from them were dead, and they were asleep. The hope of these believers was to be reunited with the departed at the return of Christ. Paul's hope at the time of his departure was the return of Christ, not being rewarded immediately by going to heaven.

2 Timothy 4:1,6-8 (KJV): 1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick (or living) and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: 8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

As far as funerals are concerned, we have recently laid to rest my mother-in-law. She had been a widow for 36 years, but is now asleep with her husband in a twin grave. They both have the inscription: Here rests Fred (Vera) waiting the return of the Lord from heaven. The next conscious moment of Fred will be at the resurrection, when he will be reunited with Vera who he had farewell-ed 36 years earlier than her own departure.

I believe that Genesis 1-3 teaches that as a result of Adam's sin he was sentenced to return to the dust. The following speaks of that day and describes those waiting as sleeping in the dust, figurative language for those that have suffered death, and yet are waiting for the return of our Lord.

Daniel 12:1-3 (KJV): 1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. 3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

Please note in the above that the resurrection is also spoken here as in the time of trouble and also the language "the brightness of the firmament" and "stars" is figurative, or similar to the language used in 1 Thessalonians 4 "clouds" and "air".

Kind regards Trevor