The Remnants of Israel

[Sister]

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So, Sister, who the remnant is I do not know because I am still working my way outside this mold that will one day lead to the requiring of mark.  It really could be the church for all I know because taking the leap of faith outside of what most people are comfortable with always gets me in trouble.  I am really to the point where I think time will tell who God really considers to be Israel.  We will know when the covenant is made (Daniel 9:27), and then we will have a better idea of who the remnant will be.  

Peace.  

 

Esther4:14

We know there is a remnant of Israel returning.  My initial question on this thread was;

are these remnants of Israel who will be brought into the kingdom during the millennium, just from the last generation of Israel, or from all generations of Israel?

If they are just from the last generation, then what about all the past generations of Israel?

  Luke 13:28   There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

 

Then there is this one;

 Jeremiah 31:15   Thus saith the LORD; A voice was heard in Ramah, lamentation, and bitter weeping; Rahel weeping for her children refused to be comforted for her children, because they were not.

  Jeremiah 31:16   Thus saith the LORD; Refrain thy voice from weeping, and thine eyes from tears: for thy work shall be rewarded, saith the LORD; and they shall come again from the land of the enemy.

  Jeremiah 31:17   And there is hope in thine end, saith the LORD, that thy children shall come again to their own border.

The above is "a prophecy".  When Herod ordered the death of all baby boys under 2 yrs to be killed, Rahel would of been one of the mothers.  God is telling her to dry her tears because her children will be brought back from the land of the enemy (death).  They shall come again to their own border, meaning they will come again to Jerusalem.  Not heaven, but Jerusalem.  I believe all these are clues that the Lord has given us to put the whole picture together concerning the remnants.

 

another one;

Job 19:26   And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

The saint's in the first resurrection are raised to "spirit".  Job will be raised to "flesh".  These are all clues.

Now we know that the remnants of Israel are not only of the last generation, but generations before them also.  They have been in their graves for so long, so they have to be "raised", but how if they are not in the resurrection of the saints?
 

 

[Last Daze]

11 hours ago, Sister said:

They worshiped God because of all the miracles he performed for them.  He forced them out of Egypt, they had no choice, they had to go, they were being led out of bondage.

God fed them, gave them shelter from the heat and the cold, and protected them from their enemies, but still they complained that "life was better in Egypt", and remember when they worshiped the golden calf when Moses was upon the mountain receiving the commandments?  40 years of walking is a long time.  God took them through the long route for a purpose.  Just about this whole generation who came out of Egypt died on the way.  Not even Moses made it into the land promised, but their children entered, because the rest were ungrateful.

Hebrews 3:8   Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:

Hebrews 3:9   When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.

Hebrews 3:10   Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.

Hebrews 3:11   So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)

The food they ate, was given by God.  This was not spiritual food, but food to keep them alive.  They did not follow God because in their heart was to know him, but always expecting him to keep them, to do everything for them.  That rock that was Christ, gave them water to drink, physical water, and not spiritual water.

The same in the world today.  People are coming to God to "get".  Many come to God because they want something out of him, and not because they want to know their God.  They worship God because they want something in return.  They give hoping to receive more in return, and get something back, or they want the spiritual gifts so that they can stand out and look special before men, they want a job, a wife, friends, always something they want out of God, in return for their worship.  This is the spirit of "get", or "gimme".  Gimme this and gimme that. 

All the multitudes who came to hear Jesus preach came only for the food...the bread, and the fish and see the miracles.  Jesus said this himself.  He saw inside their hearts.  They did not come just because they wanted to know their God.

There is a difference, and we can learn by what happened in the past with Israel.  The same goes for us today.  God is not looking for such to seek him, ...but ones who just really want to know their God and care only for what they can do for him and not the opposite.

In the desert, they did not have the full truth, or the light that Jesus gave.  They did not know that they were going to be an example for us today, and did not know the whole purpose on what God was doing back then and how everything was going to be a learning lesson for us today?  We can look back now and see the meaning for everything that God did, because Jesus has given us the light, the understanding.  They did not have that understanding, although the Word of God was instructing them and keeping them alive, safe from their enemies, but were not revealed the whole truth.

 

Perhaps those who are "in Christ", those in the first resurrection, are a subset of all believers of all times, i.e. the body of Christ.  I'll have to give that a re-think.

[Esther4:14]

10 hours ago, Sister said:

Hi Esther4:14

The remnants are all from Israel's bloodline.  There would be many mixed in there, but of Israel's bloodline.  There is a clear separation here from Israel and the gentiles.  Israel here during the millennium are flesh.  The remnants have been brought back into that place chosen from the beginning (Jerusalem).  These are not of the resurrection, there is a difference, and this is where the difference is.

 Isaiah 49:6   And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, (Jesus) and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

 Isaiah 60:1   Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee. (Israel)

 Isaiah 60:2   For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee. (Israel)

 Isaiah 60:3   And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.

 Isaiah 60:4   Lift up thine eyes round about, and see: all they gather themselves together, they come to thee: thy sons shall come from far, and thy daughters shall be nursed at thy side.

  Isaiah 60:5   Then thou shalt see, and flow together, and thine heart shall fear, and be enlarged; because the abundance of the sea shall be converted unto thee, the forces of the Gentiles shall come unto thee.

 

 Isaiah 60:6   The multitude of camels shall cover thee, the dromedaries of Midian and Ephah; all they from Sheba shall come: they shall bring gold and incense; and they shall shew forth the praises of the LORD.

  Isaiah 60:7   All the flocks of Kedar shall be gathered together unto thee, the rams of Nebaioth shall minister unto thee: they shall come up with acceptance on mine altar, and I will glorify the house of my glory.
 

 Isaiah 60:10   And the sons of strangers shall build up thy walls, and their kings shall minister unto thee: for in my wrath I smote thee, but in my favour have I had mercy on thee.

  Isaiah 60:11   Therefore thy gates shall be open continually; they shall not be shut day nor night; that men may bring unto thee the forces of the Gentiles, and that their kings may be brought.

  Isaiah 60:12   For the nation and kingdom that will not serve thee shall perish; yea, those nations shall be utterly wasted.

  Isaiah 60:13   The glory of Lebanon shall come unto thee, the fir tree, the pine tree, and the box together, to beautify the place of my sanctuary; and I will make the place of my feet glorious.

  Isaiah 60:14   The sons also of them that afflicted thee shall come bending unto thee; and all they that despised thee shall bow themselves down at the soles of thy feet; and they shall call thee, The city of the LORD, The Zion of the Holy One of Israel.

  Isaiah 60:15   Whereas thou hast been forsaken and hated, so that no man went through thee, I will make thee an eternal excellency, a joy of many generations.

 

Isaiah is talking about Paul's calling to preach salvation to the gentiles.  So, this is a piece confirming that the ministry of Paul was the plan of God.  "Thy light is come," (Isaiah 49:6) and gentiles come to this light (Isaiah 60:3).   There is still no distinction being made about a future event associated with the Revelation given to John who makes no distinction about ancestry in regard to the millennial kingdom and speaks from the perspective of the fulfillment of these verses.  

[Esther4:14]

10 hours ago, Sister said:

Esther4:14

Lets take a look at that verse in it's context.

 Isaiah 10:20   And it shall come to pass in that day, that the remnant of Israel, and such as are escaped of the house of Jacob, shall no more again stay upon him that smote them; but shall stay upon the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, in truth.

  Isaiah 10:21   The remnant shall return, even the remnant of Jacob, unto the mighty God.

  Isaiah 10:22   For though thy people Israel be as the sand of the sea, yet a remnant of them shall return: the consumption decreed shall overflow with righteousness.

  Isaiah 10:23   For the Lord GOD of hosts shall make a consumption, even determined, in the midst of all the land.

Out of the whole house of Israel, only a remnant is returning.  When everything is consumed, worked out by God, his plan done, finished, righteousness will overflow.

This remnant is Paul and John and the rest of them who accepted Christ even to the point of giving their lives who will share in the first resurrection, which I say more out of habit.  Because the book of Revelation does not ever distinguish between Jew or Gentile in anything.  But, we are so used to separating the words of the prophets from the words of the apostles as though they are speaking of two different things, which would be impossible.  The apostles are speaking from the fulfillment of many of the verses that we are still referring to in a way that suggests we are waiting for them to come to pass.  

"  And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God.They^[a] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. ⁵ (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.⁶ Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection.(Revelation 20:4-5).  

So, this is talking about two different groups.  There is the first group who was beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus (Revelation 20:4).  This would be like Paul and Peter and the rest of them who were martyred during the time of the early church, which I say referring to ones who were Jewish; however, John does not give an indication that their ancestry gives them an advantage or another who was a Greek and may have been martyred for his faith.  

Then, there is a second group who is able to share in the first resurrection because they do not take the mark (Revelation 20:4).  These will reign with Christ during the millennial kingdom and there is no distinction between Jew and Gentile.  The qualifying factor for this remnant is not taking the mark of the beast, which is an even more difficult expectation to accomplish.    

"If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise" (Galatians 3:29).  

So, for the sake of technicality, we could still be able to recognize that we are descended from Jew or Gentile, this is still not a prerequisite for sharing in the millennial kingdom.  It is actually a much more difficult command that will get you a spot with this remnant.  

"

"Esther4:14

We know there is a remnant of Israel returning.  My initial question on this thread was;

are these remnants of Israel who will be brought into the kingdom during the millennium, just from the last generation of Israel, or from all generations of Israel?

If they are just from the last generation, then what about all the past generations of Israel?

  Luke 13:28   There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out."

 

So, I would have to say they are past and present, but that there is no distinguishing between who was Jew or Gentile in the millennium kingdom according to the Revelation of John.  

[MorningGlory]

On 3/25/2016 at 8:07 PM, Sister said:

Hi William

The Lord knows who is of Israel.  He knows where all his figs have been scattered, whether good and bad.  The figs that are already dead, it does not matter, because God who owns all the souls of men has their souls in his possession. He has a storage house for all souls, ...remember this verse;

John 14:2   In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Now this doesn't not mean that all dead souls are currently alive, and aware of anything, but just preserved for whatever God intends to do with them.  Some are kept in "the barn" preserved for the 1st resurrection, some are preserved to be brought back during the millennium in the flesh, and the rest are preserved for destruction at the 2nd judgement.  Every soul is sorted, preserved and kept in their category in whatever room.  Each soul is sorted at his death, for after this he cannot change anything.

So with the house of Israel, they are sorted also.  If they are chosen to return to the promised land during the millennium because of "mercy", then each and every single one of them has to be sifted.  Sifted to decide who will return into the Kingdom as a remnant of Israel during the millennium in his flesh. 

The remnants of Israel are only according to the "election of grace".  It does not include all of them, but the ones chosen only, and these chosen will make up the whole house of Israel who will bear God's name and go through his Word.

 

 

That's a lot of statements, Sister.  Please post Scripture for them.

[Sister]

Quote

So, I would have to say they are past and present, but that there is no distinguishing between who was Jew or Gentile in the millennium kingdom according to the Revelation of John.  

Hi Esther 4:14

Yes, correct, because the purpose of Christ coming, is to call all to him whether Jew or Gentile to be converted to Christ according to the New Covenant, so that we can take part in the First Resurrection.  This message goes out to Jew and Gentile, to all.  All get the same chance, and Christ was preached to the Jews first, personally by Christ himself.  Christ wants all to believe in him and gives every one that same opportunity to know him.

Regarding the remnants being brought back during the millennium, is mostly spoken off in the OT, and confirmed here and there, and not clearly in the NT for all to understand.  It's not a get out of jail free card, nor an excuse to be complacent thinking, oh well we of Israel are chosen for that time during the millennium, so we can do what we like because we are covered.  No.  And that is not my message either to relax, because it is only by "election" who the remnants will be, and considering Israel has multiplied like the sand of the sea, the remnants chosen of Israel from all generations are only such a small number, which is why they are called remnants.  This will be a harsh election also, for many will miss out.

It doesn't change the fact however, that God is showing us his plan and what he will perform during the millennium.  He is just giving us an insight of what will be and how he will straighten things out with the people he first called, to bring his name glory this time through them, at his timing.

And if God is showing us his whole plan, and openning up the scriptures to us knowing what will come, then he has shared with us things not understood by the world, that his Word is true and everything spoken will be fulfilled, so we can have this testimony of the truth that he is faithful to his Word and know beforehand his purpose, because he revealed it to us.

 

 

[Sister]

4 hours ago, MorningGlory said:

That's a lot of statements, Sister.  Please post Scripture for them.

Ezekiel 18:4   Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

God holds all our souls when we die.  His house has many "mansions".  Many rooms.  All these rooms are there for a purpose otherwise Christ wouldn't of told us about it.

God's throne is in heaven.  The drawing board is in heaven.  This is where God designed everything and holds all the plans.. 

God is spirit.  Our bodies are flesh, so when we die our flesh goes back to dust, but our "souls", not made of flesh, God takes back, and preserves them until the time he will plug the power back in so to speak, whether it be in the resurrection, or judgement.  The power is going to be switched back on at some point and we all have to face Christ, whether to be given back life, or sentenced to an eternal death.  Our flesh which is made of dust will return to the dust, but our souls, which contain all the things we have done in our life, God keeps reserved, and because our souls are not made out of "flesh", he keeps them all preserved in heaven.

I cannot explain this with scripture, or prove it, but can only explain it with my understanding.  If anyone can prove that our soul's don't belong to God, therefore should not be "preserved" in heaven, but somewhere on the earth, then I will take a look at it and rethink my position.

Look at Moses and Elijah for example.  Elijah was taken up without seeing death, and Moses died.  I believe that they are the two witnesses that will return.  They must be preserved somewhere?  I do not think that they are alive looking down, but I know inside that they are preserved in heaven, in one of those rooms.  The rooms all have different purposes.  They are like "holding bays" for the soul, reserved in heaven, for when the power will be switched back on.

 

[Sister]

Matthew 13:30   Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

What about all the other generations that died in Christ?  They have to be harvested also.  They cannot be harvested at the end amongst the living, because they are already in the grave.  That "barn" must be one of those rooms for their souls where this lot will be preserved for the resurrection, and the tares bundled in a different room reserved for judgement, to be tried, and thrown into the lake of fire after the 1000 years. 

I will keep looking for more examples if there is any.

[Ezra]

On 24/03/2016 at 8:09 AM, Sister said:

So if there is no difference, they why would God give ISRAEL preference at the resurrection?  Doesn't this just contradict everything taught above?

Who says God gives preference to Israel at the resurrection?  Certainly not Scripture.  A lot of the verses you are posting above have absolutely nothing to do with the remnant of Israel at the Second Coming of Christ. For someone not familiar with the topic, all this does is lead to confusion.  

BTW, the 144,000 redeemed JEWS are not resurrected, but translated to Heaven (just like the Church before them).

[Sister]

23 minutes ago, Ezra said:

Who says God gives preference to Israel at the resurrection?  Certainly not Scripture.  A lot of the verses you are posting above have absolutely nothing to do with the remnant of Israel at the Second Coming of Christ. For someone not familiar with the topic, all this does is lead to confusion.  

BTW, the 144,000 redeemed JEWS are not resurrected, but translated to Heaven (just like the Church before them).

Ezra

 1 Corinthians 15:50   Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.