The Soviet Union or Nazi Germany

[Qnts2]

 

I realize you wernt, though I would say that he was indeed trying to wipe the blacks out to, just using a different method of doing so. Hitler by in large targeted anyone he considered to be inferior or got in his way, some more then others. I agree, its sad the JWs took a better stand then the church did.

Ok. The practice of forced sterilization is called Eugenics. I'll simply quote wiki for a definition of eugenics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics

Eugenics (/juːˈdʒɛnɪks/; from Greek εὐγενής eugenes "well-born" from εὖ eu, "good, well" and γένος genos, "race, stock, kin")^[2][3] is a set of beliefs and practices that aims at improving the genetic quality of the human population.^[4][5] It is a social philosophy advocating the improvement of human genetic traits through the promotion of higher rates of sexual reproduction for people with desired traits (positive eugenics), or reduced rates of sexual reproduction and sterilization of people with less-desired or undesired traits (negative eugenics), or both.^[6] Alternatively, gene selection rather than "people selection" has recently been made possible through advances in gene editing (e.g. CRISPR).^[7] The exact definition of eugenics has been a matter of debate since the term was coined. The definition of it as a "social philosophy"—that is, a philosophy with implications for social order—is not universally accepted, and was taken from Frederick Osborn's 1937 journal article "Development of a Eugenic Philosophy".^[6]

While eugenic principles have been practiced as far back in world history as Ancient Greece, the modern history of eugenics began in the early 20th century when a popular eugenics movement emerged in the United Kingdom^[8] and spread to many countries, including the United States and most European countries. In this period, eugenic ideas were espoused across the political spectrum. Consequently, many countries adopted eugenic policies meant to improve the genetic stock of their countries. Such programs often included both "positive" measures, such as encouraging individuals deemed particularly "fit" to reproduce, and "negative" measures such as marriage prohibitions and forced sterilization of people deemed unfit for reproduction. People deemed unfit to reproduce often included people with mental or physical disabilities, people who scored in the low ranges of different IQ tests, criminals and deviants, and members of disfavored minority groups. The eugenics movement became negatively associated with Nazi Germany and the Holocaust—the murder by the German state of approximately 11 million people—when many of the defendants at the Nuremberg trials attempted to justify their human rights abuses by claiming there was little difference between the Nazi eugenics programs and the US eugenics programs.^[9] In the decades following World War II, with the institution of human rights, many countries gradually abandoned eugenics policies, although some Western countries, among them Sweden and the United States, continued to carry out forced sterilizations.

 

[The_Patriot21]

yes, I realize what the definition is, thanks, has the same end effect. Sterilize all the people of the chosen "race" and you effectively kill it. End result is the same, its just a little less painful and not quite as fast as the method he took with the jews.

[Qnts2]

14 hours ago, The_Patriot2016 said:

yes, I realize what the definition is, thanks, has the same end effect. Sterilize all the people of the chosen "race" and you effectively kill it. End result is the same, its just a little less painful and not quite as fast as the method he took with the jews.

Since my husband is part Abenaki, and we live in a state which practiced eugenics against the Abenaki people, I know how painful it is. There are no pure Abenaki in Vermont, because the only ones who were not sterilized were the children of Abenaki and white. Those children were claimed as white on the birth certificates so they were not sterilized. Discussing this is painful to my husband as he had close relatives who were confined to the state psychiatric facility or the state school for those with a mental disability or the state medical center connected to a state university, even though his relative were neither, because they practiced forced sterilization in those facilities. The state was afraid that if they let the pure Abenaki alone, they would appeal to the U.S. government for a reservation which the state did not want. 

In Germany, they forced sterilization on the blacks to keep the white Aryans from having a 'poluted' DNA. That was bad and hurtful to the black people raised in Germany. There are books written by people who experienced this horror done against them. The difference between what was done to the blacks and what was done to the Jewish people, was that outside of Germany, Germany did not practice eugenics against the blacks because they were not concerned about the purity of the non-Aryans gene pool. For the Jewish people, it wasn't a question of keeping a pure gene pool, but that the Nazi's wanted to kill all Jews, so in countries outside of Germany, the Nazi's carried on their program of murdering Jewish people. The same practice went for the Roma Gypsies who were killed by the Nazi's wherever they had enough power.  Nazi Germany was intent on killing all Jews and Roma, but was not concerned about allowing blacks to live and marry in countries which were not Aryan.

[The_Patriot21]

9 minutes ago, Qnts2 said:

Since my husband is part Abenaki, and we live in a state which practiced eugenics against the Abenaki people, I know how painful it is. There are no pure Abenaki in Vermont, because the only ones who were not sterilized were the children of Abenaki and white. Those children were claimed as white on the birth certificates so they were not sterilized. Discussing this is painful to my husband as he had close relatives who were confined to the state psychiatric facility or the state school for those with a mental disability or the state medical center connected to a state university, even though his relative were neither, because they practiced forced sterilization in those facilities. The state was afraid that if they let the pure Abenaki alone, they would appeal to the U.S. government for a reservation which the state did not want. 

In Germany, they forced sterilization on the blacks to keep the white Aryans from having a 'poluted' DNA. That was bad and hurtful to the black people raised in Germany. There are books written by people who experienced this horror done against them. The difference between what was done to the blacks and what was done to the Jewish people, was that outside of Germany, Germany did not practice eugenics against the blacks because they were not concerned about the purity of the non-Aryans gene pool. For the Jewish people, it wasn't a question of keeping a pure gene pool, but that the Nazi's wanted to kill all Jews, so in countries outside of Germany, the Nazi's carried on their program of murdering Jewish people. The same practice went for the Roma Gypsies who were killed by the Nazi's wherever they had enough power.  Nazi Germany was intent on killing all Jews and Roma, but was not concerned about allowing blacks to live and marry in countries which were not Aryan.

I was refering to the physical pain, not mental/emotional pain, I apologize if it came across that way.

[Qnts2]

Just now, The_Patriot2016 said:

I was refering to the physical pain, not mental/emotional pain, I apologize if it came across that way.

No reason to apologize. I wasn't really differentiating.

[spiderman1917]

18 hours ago, OakWood said:

The OP has raised a good question. It's such a good question that I have to go away and think about it before I can give a definitive answer. But I will say now, that both systems are Godless and evil. However from a purely selfish view Nazi Germany may have been better for me. I'm not Jewish and I am fairly Anglo-Saxon in my appearance and ancestry. I imagine that the authorities would have pretty much left me alone as long as I kept my head down. They probably would have in the USSR too, when I think about it.

Now remember that I haven't really thought about it. I may come back when I have.

Under the Soviet Union you are likely to be tortured and murdered on the sole basis that you are Christian.  The Nazis didn't kill people for having a bible or going to Church.  Soviets did.

[Qnts2]

22 minutes ago, spiderman1917 said:

Under the Soviet Union you are likely to be tortured and murdered on the sole basis that you are Christian.  The Nazis didn't kill people for having a bible or going to Church.  Soviets did.

In the Soviet Union, you were likely to be tortured and murdered on the sole basis that you are practicing Judaism, Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, Sikhism, Bahaiism or Shintoism. When the Communists fought the czar, Russian Orthodox was close to being the state religion as the Czar and Czarina were Russian Orthodox. So the first conflict was with the Russian Orthodox church when Communism won. After that, the communist government went after all other religions including Christianity which was not part of the Orthodox church. There was nothing uniquely anti-christian in Russia, because Russia was anti-religion of any kind.

In the Roman empire, for a time, Christianity was against the law so Christians were persecuted for practicing an unlawful religion. 

[The_Patriot21]

5 hours ago, spiderman1917 said:

Under the Soviet Union you are likely to be tortured and murdered on the sole basis that you are Christian.  The Nazis didn't kill people for having a bible or going to Church.  Soviets did.

but the problem with your logic, is that as I have already demonstrated, you are wrong. They did go after christians, especially those who were willing to stand for the truth. IF you were a apathetic spineless hypocrit who refused to stand up, sure they left you alone, but one would question whether or not those are actually "christians" or not, and bible holding jehovahs witnesses were singled out regularly. Bibles, were one of the many books the nazis were fond of burning. Both were pretty much against any minority, and like I said originally they were allies, for this very reason.

[Guest Thallasa]

On ‎10‎/‎04‎/‎2016 at 8:52 PM, Qnts2 said:

I tried to find the number of black people killed by Hitler, but could not find a number on the internet. I did find that Nazi Germany sterilized black children to prevent a contamination of white aryans through inter-marriage and mixed offspring.

The other group of people (other then the Jewish people) targeted for murder and nearly annihilated were the Roma Gypsies.  

 

I think you need to do a bit more history . The Jews were a tiny minority of the people who were killed in WW2,and many Jews were in the establishment as well in the army . And it was not Hitler who started the war either .

[Guest Thallasa]

On ‎11‎/‎04‎/‎2016 at 10:13 PM, Qnts2 said:

In the Soviet Union, you were likely to be tortured and murdered on the sole basis that you are practicing Judaism, Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, Sikhism, Bahaiism or Shintoism. When the Communists fought the czar, Russian Orthodox was close to being the state religion as the Czar and Czarina were Russian Orthodox. So the first conflict was with the Russian Orthodox church when Communism won. After that, the communist government went after all other religions including Christianity which was not part of the Orthodox church. There was nothing uniquely anti-christian in Russia, because Russia was anti-religion of any kind.

In the Roman empire, for a time, Christianity was against the law so Christians were persecuted for practicing an unlawful religion. 

You said "including christianity which was not part of the Orthodox church ". Does this mean that the Orthodox Church were excluded from persecution  in your view ?