The Great Image.

[Marilyn C]

3 hours ago, Ezra said:

Marilyn,

As you well know, Rome is not identified in Daniel, but Babylon, Medo-Persia (Media and Persia), and Graeco-Macedonia (Grecia)are clearly identified. So we must turn to the history of the nations around the Mediterranean Sea to determine which empire succeeded Grecia. Also the character of that empire as described in Daniel. 

Hi Ezra,

`As well I know`   Rome is not identified in Daniel, as you said. So tell me why  ` we must turn to the history of the nations around the Mediterranean Sea to determine which empire succeeded Grecia. ` as you said. God`s word tells us who the fourth Gentile world power is in Luke -

`And it came to pass in those days that a decree went out from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be registered.` (Luke 2: 1)

God`s word tells us that the fourth Gentile World Ruler was Rome. History only confirms it.

So again I ask where in all of God`s word does He tell us who the final Gentile World Ruler is?

Marilyn.  

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Marilyn C,

4 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Just because a view has been around a long time does NOT make it true. It has to match up with God`s word, which I`m sure you would agree that is must. I just hope & pray that you will consider these points we are discussing in line with God`s word.

I appreciate your comments. When you first posted I gathered that you intended to let Daniel 2 speak, to allow the Word of God speak as you seem to claim for yourself. I agreed with your definition of the four metals representing Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece and Rome. But then you seemed to add a few strange ideas when talking of the feet and toes, including adding part of the description of the fourth beast to describe what you claim is the 5^th World Ruler. Your latest Post seems to continue in the same line of thought.

 

Even though you claim that these four kingdoms were “Gentile World Rulers’, these Empires never ruled all the world. They did not rule India, China, Africa, Australia, America or many other countries. Also to claim that there is yet to appear a 5^th World Ruler based upon the feet and the toes does not correspond with the details that this part would be a hegemony of weak and strong parts, with the hint of each territory having its own ruler, and that these parts would not adhere together. There is no indication in Daniel 2 that this particular era will be governed by ONE World Ruler.

 

Kind regards

Trevor

[Marilyn C]

1 hour ago, TrevorL said:

Greetings again Marilyn C,

I appreciate your comments. When you first posted I gathered that you intended to let Daniel 2 speak, to allow the Word of God speak as you seem to claim for yourself. I agreed with your definition of the four metals representing Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece and Rome. But then you seemed to add a few strange ideas when talking of the feet and toes, including adding part of the description of the fourth beast to describe what you claim is the 5^th World Ruler. Your latest Post seems to continue in the same line of thought.

 

Even though you claim that these four kingdoms were “Gentile World Rulers’, these Empires never ruled all the world. They did not rule India, China, Africa, Australia, America or many other countries. Also to claim that there is yet to appear a 5^th World Ruler based upon the feet and the toes does not correspond with the details that this part would be a hegemony of weak and strong parts, with the hint of each territory having its own ruler, and that these parts would not adhere together. There is no indication in Daniel 2 that this particular era will be governed by ONE World Ruler.

 

Kind regards

Trevor

Hi TrevorL,

It does seem to me that you `gathered` the wrong idea thinking that I said only Daniel 2 was to `speak.`  This is what I said in the OP -

`When God gave the dream to Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon the other empires had not yet arisen, but God declared them in His word. Thus it is not up to us to speculate or have opinions for God has said who they all are.`

It is throughout God`s word that we find out who God is referring to in the Great Image.

As to world rulership I again direct you to God`s word.

`You, O king, are a king of kings. For the God of heaven has given you a kingdom, power, strength & glory; & wherever the children of men dwell, or the beasts of the field & the birds of the heaven, He (God) has given them into your hand, & has made you ruler over them all ...` (Da. 2: 37 & 38)

Just because the king did not send his armies to far distant places did not stop him from being the world ruler. If he did send an army there then those in far away places would have had to bow the knee.

Finally what God has set as a precedent, `wherever.....ruler over them all`  is not only possible today but fast coming into being.

Marilyn. 

 

 

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Marilyn C,

4 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Finally what God has set as a precedent, `wherever.....ruler over them all`  is not only possible today but fast coming into being.

I appreciate your response but I have a different view of what the prophetic word teaches. One aspect is that I believe that there will be three centres of power at the time of the end, based upon Revelation 16:13, the beast, the false prophet and the dragon. I especially read Daniel 2 differently to what you have presented. Of these three powers that are mentioned, two of these are differentiated in Daniel 7 (my understanding = the false prophet) by comparison to Daniel 8 (my understanding = the dragon), but neither of these are the "one world ruler". The victory of the King of the North mentioned in Ezekiel 38 and Daniel 11:40-45 will be short-lived as both of these prophecies suggest.

Kind regards Trevor

[Ezra]

10 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

So again I ask where in all of God`s word does He tell us who the final Gentile World Ruler is?

I did not say anything about a final Gentile world ruler.  And yes, the NT confirms that Rome was the last empire, but Daniel does not "name" Rome, while he names the others. Therefore iron and clay represents a revival of the former Roman empire.

The final world ruler will be A JEW, not a Gentile, although he may come out of a Gentile nation. 2 Thessalonians states that he will sit in the Temple of God, and claim that he is God.  Only a Jew will have access to the future third Temple, and it is the God of the Hebrews whom he will blaspheme.  Daniel confirms this in Dan 11:28,37: Then shall he return into his land with great riches; and his heart shall be against the holy covenant; and he shall do exploits, and return to his own land... Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

The "God of his fathers" is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, who are called "the fathers" [patriarchs] in Scripture: As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. [A reference to Israel] (Rom 11:28).

[kwikphilly]

Blessings Ezra,,,,,

     I can't believe I never realized that the last world ruler has to be a Jew!!!!! It seems so obvious as you point it out in Daniel 11:28-37,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,thank you for this ,learn something new everyday,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,hmmm,Praise the Lord!                       Love,Kwik

[Marilyn C]

12 hours ago, TrevorL said:

Greetings again Marilyn C,

I appreciate your response but I have a different view of what the prophetic word teaches. One aspect is that I believe that there will be three centres of power at the time of the end, based upon Revelation 16:13, the beast, the false prophet and the dragon. I especially read Daniel 2 differently to what you have presented. Of these three powers that are mentioned, two of these are differentiated in Daniel 7 (my understanding = the false prophet) by comparison to Daniel 8 (my understanding = the dragon), but neither of these are the "one world ruler". The victory of the King of the North mentioned in Ezekiel 38 and Daniel 11:40-45 will be short-lived as both of these prophecies suggest.

Kind regards Trevor

Hi TrevorL,

So can you clarify for me your view, please Trevor?

Who do you see are the `feet & toes?`

And what scripture/s back that view?

Thank you Marilyn.

[Marilyn C]

8 hours ago, Ezra said:

I did not say anything about a final Gentile world ruler.  And yes, the NT confirms that Rome was the last empire, but Daniel does not "name" Rome, while he names the others. Therefore iron and clay represents a revival of the former Roman empire.

 

 

Hi Ezra,

So can you also please clarify for me what you saying. You said -

`And yes, the NT confirms that Rome was the last empire, but Daniel does not "name" Rome, while he names the others. Therefore iron and clay represents a revival of the former Roman empire.`

Are you saying that your view, doctrine, is based upon a description in an illustration, (ie. iron in the great Image)?

Also, are you then negating all other scriptures in God`s word relating to this point of Gentile Rulership in the last days?

Marilyn.

Edited April 20, 2016 by Marilyn C

[Ezra]

54 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Are you saying that your view, doctrine, is based upon a description in an illustration, (ie. iron in the great Image)?

What we find in Daniel is not an "illustration" but an explanation. The dream was given to Nebuchadnezzar and interpreted by the Holy Spirit through Daniel.

"Thou art this head of gold" (Dan 2:38) tells us that the first "kingdom" [empire] was Babylon.  "After thee shall arise another kingdom" (Dan 2:39) corresponds to "the ram which thou sawest... are the two kings of Media and Persia" (Dan 8:20). "And another third kingdom of brass" (Dan 2:39), corresponds to "the rough goat is the king of Grecia" (Dan 8:21).  "And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron" (Dan 2:40) therefore can be no other than the Roman Empire. The Roman Empire ultimately disintegrated, as did the Holy Roman Empire.

What we see today is the European Union as well as other countries around the Mediterranean Sea, some very weak, others strong. This is represented by "and as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken" (Dan 2:42).  There will be ten horns or ten kingdoms within this confederation, but they will be as nothing compared to "the little horn" which has "the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking great things" (Dan 7:8).  

This is the key figure, and he is not a Gentile.  IT IS THE BLASPHEMOUS MOUTH OF THE ANTICHRIST WHICH IS PRESENTED OVER AND OVER AGAIN, BOTH IN THE OT AND IN THE NT.

[Marilyn C]

2 hours ago, Ezra said:

What we find in Daniel is not an "illustration" but an explanation. The dream was given to Nebuchadnezzar and interpreted by the Holy Spirit through Daniel.

"Thou art this head of gold" (Dan 2:38) tells us that the first "kingdom" [empire] was Babylon.  "After thee shall arise another kingdom" (Dan 2:39) corresponds to "the ram which thou sawest... are the two kings of Media and Persia" (Dan 8:20). "And another third kingdom of brass" (Dan 2:39), corresponds to "the rough goat is the king of Grecia" (Dan 8:21).  "And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron" (Dan 2:40) therefore can be no other than the Roman Empire. The Roman Empire ultimately disintegrated, as did the Holy Roman Empire.

What we see today is the European Union as well as other countries around the Mediterranean Sea, some very weak, others strong. This is represented by "and as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken" (Dan 2:42).  There will be ten horns or ten kingdoms within this confederation, but they will be as nothing compared to "the little horn" which has "the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking great things" (Dan 7:8).  

This is the key figure, and he is not a Gentile.  IT IS THE BLASPHEMOUS MOUTH OF THE ANTICHRIST WHICH IS PRESENTED OVER AND OVER AGAIN, BOTH IN THE OT AND IN THE NT.

Hi Ezra,

I still do not see how you get from the legs = Rome, to the `feet & toes` = EU etc.

What makes you connect the two?

 

Also, remember Luke 21: 24?

`And Jerusalem will be trampled by GENTILES until the times of the GENTILES are fulfilled.` (Luke 21: 24)

 

Marilyn.