Explanation for a verse

[SIC]

1 hour ago, Ezra said:

Yes, he could have done something about it.  He could have repented and believed on the Lord Jesus Christ up until the night of the Passover. Instead, he chose to let Satan fill his heart with malice, and allowed his greed to control him.  In contrast, we see Peter betraying Christ, repenting, and being restored to leadership.

But Christ (who is God) already knew from before Judas was born, that this man would betray him for thirty pieces of silver.  Knowing this, and knowing prophecy must be fulfilled precisely, Christ chose him to walk among the twelve, yet clearly identified him as lost, and the Son of Perdition. He also made him treasurer of the disciples for good measure. Judas had every opportunity to walk the straight and narrow way.

 

33 minutes ago, Butero said:

No he couldn't.  He was going to do what he was created to do.  Had he not done so, then Biblical prophecy would have failed and God would have been shown to be a liar.  I am amazed at the way people refuse to accept that God has created some vessels of honor and some of dishonor. 

Two contrasting views. But if Butero's view is true then I do not blame Judas. He merely did what he was meant to do...

[blevn1]

3 hours ago, SIC said:

So are you saying Jesus knew Judas would betray him even at the time of Judas's selection ? Meaning Judas was pre ordained to be a betrayer?

Yes Jesus even says i have chosen you 12 and one of you is a devil. He also said at the supper he who breaks this bread with me is he and orders Judas to go do what he had to do.

[Ezra]

42 minutes ago, SIC said:

Two contrasting views. But if Butero's view is true then I do not blame Judas. He merely did what he was meant to do...

If that were true then no criminal or sinner could be held accountable, since God had *programmed* them to do evil. Obviously, the Bible does not teach any such thing.  Because of the foreknowledge of Christ and God, it appeared as though Judas was "foreordained" or "pre-ordained" to betray Christ. But that is false doctrine.  No evildoer is foreordained to do evil.  Neither were Satan nor Adam foreordained to sin and disobey.  There are too many who mistake God's foreknowledge for pre-determinism. And thus we have a lot of false theology.

[Ezra]

1 hour ago, Butero said:

No he couldn't.  He was going to do what he was created to do.  Had he not done so, then Biblical prophecy would have failed and God would have been shown to be a liar.  I am amazed at the way people refuse to accept that God has created some vessels of honor and some of dishonor. 

No, biblical prophecy could not fail since Christ knew from before the foundation of the world what Judas would do.

[Sister]

1 hour ago, SIC said:

 

Two contrasting views. But if Butero's view is true then I do not blame Judas. He merely did what he was meant to do...

Hi SIC

God gives Judas a chance to manifest what is truly in his heart.  This is why he was chosen to do the job.  He uses the wicked to to the evil work.  Judas was wicked from the start. 

The perfect man to do the job.

[SIC]

2 hours ago, Ezra said:

If that were true then no criminal or sinner could be held accountable, since God had *programmed* them to do evil. Obviously, the Bible does not teach any such thing.  Because of the foreknowledge of Christ and God, it appeared as though Judas was "foreordained" or "pre-ordained" to betray Christ. But that is false doctrine.  No evildoer is foreordained to do evil.  Neither were Satan nor Adam foreordained to sin and disobey.  There are too many who mistake God's foreknowledge for pre-determinism. And thus we have a lot of false theology.

 

1 hour ago, Sister said:

Hi SIC

God gives Judas a chance to manifest what is truly in his heart.  This is why he was chosen to do the job.  He uses the wicked to to the evil work.  Judas was wicked from the start. 

The perfect man to do the job.

 

So let me get this right. God had a vacancy for a wicked man. And Judas fulfilled that vacancy. If he had chosen not to betray than someone else of the 12 would have betrayed. Is that right?

[Ezra]

1 hour ago, SIC said:

So let me get this right. God had a vacancy for a wicked man. And Judas fulfilled that vacancy. If he had chosen not to betray than someone else of the 12 would have betrayed. Is that right?

Someone else from outside the 12 would be more accurate, and Judas would not have been present.

[Guest Butero]

4 hours ago, SIC said:

 

Two contrasting views. But if Butero's view is true then I do not blame Judas. He merely did what he was meant to do...

 

Thou will say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault?  For who hath resisted his will?  Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God?  Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?  Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour and another unto dishonor?  Romans 9:19-21

[Guest Butero]

4 hours ago, Ezra said:

If that were true then no criminal or sinner could be held accountable, since God had *programmed* them to do evil. Obviously, the Bible does not teach any such thing.  Because of the foreknowledge of Christ and God, it appeared as though Judas was "foreordained" or "pre-ordained" to betray Christ. But that is false doctrine.  No evildoer is foreordained to do evil.  Neither were Satan nor Adam foreordained to sin and disobey.  There are too many who mistake God's foreknowledge for pre-determinism. And thus we have a lot of false theology.

If God creates someone knowing they will be evil because of his foreknowledge, that is really no different than saying he created them evil.  If a person writes a novel and creates a bad character like a serial killer, though he created that person bad, he still deserves whatever punishment he suffers because of the evil he does.  It is the same with someone like Judas Iscariot.  There is no reason to feel sorry for him.  He was a bad person that sold our Lord for thirty pieces of silver.  Even if he was created to play that roll, he was an evil person who got the reward of the evil deeds he did. 

[Sister]

2 hours ago, SIC said:

 

 

So let me get this right. God had a vacancy for a wicked man. And Judas fulfilled that vacancy. If he had chosen not to betray than someone else of the 12 would have betrayed. Is that right?

Hi Sic

Yes, God had a vacancy for a wicked man.  That man God chose was Judas.  God did not make him sin, as Judas did it all on his own, according to his heart.  We don't know what other things Judas had in his heart, but God knows.  It must of been very bad.

The remainder of the 12 were chosen for salvation, & Judas was chosen for condemnation.

This is to also show us that if someone truly desires what can please the flesh and not the spirit, then no amount of truth can change that person.  He will eventually manifest whatever is inside. Judas went that one step further to betray his Christ because his heart was not for him and led him to his death for payment.  This is what manifested.

 

 Psalms 109:3   They compassed me about also with words of hatred; and fought against me without a cause.

  Psalms 109:4   For my love they are my adversaries: but I give myself unto prayer.

  Psalms 109:5   And they have rewarded me evil for good, and hatred for my love.

  Psalms 109:6   Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand.

  Psalms 109:7   When he shall be judged, let him be condemned: and let his prayer become sin.

  Psalms 109:8   Let his days be few; and let another take his office.

  Psalms 109:9   Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow.

  Psalms 109:10   Let his children be continually vagabonds, and beg: let them seek their bread also out of their desolate places.

  Psalms 109:11   Let the extortioner catch all that he hath; and let the strangers spoil his labour.

  Psalms 109:12   Let there be none to extend mercy unto him: neither let there be any to favour his fatherless children.

  Psalms 109:13   Let his posterity be cut off; and in the generation following let their name be blotted out.

  Psalms 109:14   Let the iniquity of his fathers be remembered with the LORD; and let not the sin of his mother be blotted out.

  Psalms 109:15   Let them be before the LORD continually, that he may cut off the memory of them from the earth.

  Psalms 109:16   Because that he remembered not to shew mercy, but persecuted the poor and needy man, that he might even slay the broken in heart.

  Psalms 109:17   As he loved cursing, so let it come unto him: as he delighted not in blessing, so let it be far from him.

  Psalms 109:18   As he clothed himself with cursing like as with his garment, so let it come into his bowels like water, and like oil into his bones.

  Psalms 109:19   Let it be unto him as the garment which covereth him, and for a girdle wherewith he is girded continually.

  Psalms 109:20   Let this be the reward of mine adversaries from the LORD, and of them that speak evil against my soul.