OakWood Posted June 10, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 867 Topics Per Day: 0.24 Content Count: 7,331 Content Per Day: 2.00 Reputation: 2,860 Days Won: 31 Joined: 04/09/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/28/1964 Author Share Posted June 10, 2016 1 minute ago, enoob57 said: your failing to rightly divide: 1. God's wrath against evil. 2. Wrath of evil against God. 3. Natural wrath within the creation elements because of perversion of original design. (God's curse of creation) No I'm dividing them exactly as they should be. In fact I'm failing to understand what you are trying to say. What exactly do you mean by natural wrath within the creation elements and what has that got to do with prophecy or past events? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted June 10, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,180 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,457 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted June 10, 2016 1 minute ago, OakWood said: No I'm dividing them exactly as they should be. In fact I'm failing to understand what you are trying to say. What exactly do you mean by natural wrath within the creation elements and what has that got to do with prophecy or past events? God's original cursing of creation at the discourse with Adam and Eve in Genesis 3:13-24 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OakWood Posted June 10, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 867 Topics Per Day: 0.24 Content Count: 7,331 Content Per Day: 2.00 Reputation: 2,860 Days Won: 31 Joined: 04/09/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/28/1964 Author Share Posted June 10, 2016 1 minute ago, enoob57 said: God's original cursing of creation at the discourse with Adam and Eve in Genesis 3:13-24 And how exactly does this tie in with God protecting the righteous from his wrath but not necessarily protecting them from the trials and tribulations of evil ? It's not rocket science. When God decides to pass judgement the righteous always escape being punished by him. Throughout history the righteous have often fallen victim to the actions of evil. You're trying to complicate an issue that is simple. Besides, that still leaves nine other points that haven't been addressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OakWood Posted June 10, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 867 Topics Per Day: 0.24 Content Count: 7,331 Content Per Day: 2.00 Reputation: 2,860 Days Won: 31 Joined: 04/09/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/28/1964 Author Share Posted June 10, 2016 18 minutes ago, Steve_S said: Wow, this post has some meat on its bones, lol. 1, 2, 3, and 6 are, in a nutshell, why I left pretrib doctrine behind long ago. To address Enoob's scripture above, namely the second (as I don't believe the first one makes any real implications either way). 1Th 5:9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 1Th 5:10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him. I full well believe that this scripture is accurate. It is just that I do not believe that Christians suffer *God's* wrath during the tribulation. The main problem with this scripture from a pre-trib perspective is the assumption that the people who become Christians during the trib do suffer His wrath. Does this promise not apply to them as well? They would be no less bought with the blood of Christ than you or I any other Christian. Exactly. But maybe pre-Tribbers think that all Christians are equal but some are more equal than others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted June 10, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,991 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,689 Content Per Day: 11.81 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted June 10, 2016 It is not a salvation issue Oak so it is no big deal. TIme will tell. If we should go in the next hour or today no one is going to be shaking their finger at each other saying "See I told you so". Nope it just ain't gonna happen. Time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Daze Posted June 10, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 10, 2016 8 minutes ago, OakWood said: And how exactly does this tie in with God protecting the righteous from his wrath but not necessarily protecting them from the trials and tribulations of evil ? It's not rocket science. When God decides to pass judgement the righteous always escape being punished by him. Throughout history the righteous have often fallen victim to the actions of evil. You're trying to complicate an issue that is simple. Besides, that still leaves nine other points that haven't been addressed. The pretrib fallacy relies heavily on manufactured terminology, confusing terminology, and dubious interpretations to keep it propped up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OakWood Posted June 10, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 867 Topics Per Day: 0.24 Content Count: 7,331 Content Per Day: 2.00 Reputation: 2,860 Days Won: 31 Joined: 04/09/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/28/1964 Author Share Posted June 10, 2016 3 minutes ago, bopeep1909 said: It is not a salvation issue Oak so it is no big deal. TIme will tell. If we should go in the next hour or today no one is going to be shaking their finger at each other saying "See I told you so". Nope it just ain't gonna happen. Time will tell. I realise that and I'm still undecided - but it's just that the Pre-Trib has raised some questions and all I'm frankly asking for is that these questions be addressed. But I'm not getting any clear answers (yet). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Daze Posted June 10, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 10, 2016 13 minutes ago, OakWood said: Exactly. But maybe pre-Tribbers think that all Christians are equal but some are more equal than others. Exactly. They believe there are the super-spiritual, pretrib, A-team saints who are restraining the Antichrist and the not-so-spiritual, B-team, tribulation saints who can't restrain anything and aren't even worthy to be called "church." However, somehow, these B-team saints, who are beyond number, are willing to give their lives as a testimony for Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Daze Posted June 10, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 10, 2016 14 minutes ago, bopeep1909 said: It is not a salvation issue Oak so it is no big deal. Its a preparation issue and it is a big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted June 10, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,180 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,457 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted June 10, 2016 I am really busy but will address your points at first available time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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