Sister Posted June 28, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 17 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,727 Content Per Day: 1.03 Reputation: 2,305 Days Won: 5 Joined: 06/29/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 28, 2016 On 26/06/2016 at 10:53 PM, Diaste said: I don't think anyone maneuvers around the fact of the gathering of the elect. That Jesus is coming back for His followers is ubiquitous. You realize we are debating the timing of the gathering? It seems you don't take a stand on timing from the above. I'm all for waiting to be sure before we speak what we think is the truth God has revealed. I also disagree with a person thinking they have heard from the Spirit when the things they hear do not align with scripture or are contradicted by scripture. This is the only test we have to know that we have heard correctly. In my case I was getting no where in my search of scripture for the truth of the end of the age. Then one day I saw scripture I hadn't seen, or was kept from me, and then many scriptures became much clearer. But I certainly didn't hear a voice or get a feeling that I should interpret prophecy by feelings or a voice, unless relevant scriptural facts were in support. I don't see relevant scriptural facts in support of Pre Trib. I see a lot of emotion and fear. How can I say that? I was a pretribber for decades. Learned from Lindsey, turned out to be all wrong according to scripture. There is a gathering, just not before Jesus makes His only visible return. Hi Diaste That was lovely to read. God bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diaste Posted June 28, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,647 Content Per Day: 1.98 Reputation: 2,376 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted June 28, 2016 2 hours ago, Endtime_Survivors said: Hi Diaste. I'm not sure what it is, but something seems to keep happening with your posts where they stretch off the screen (to the right side) making it difficult to read. Does it appear that way on your screen, too? I only see it for your posts. Not on my laptop. On my phone the conversation stretches off to the right. Until just recently I couldn't get the quote function to work properly on my laptop. It seems to work now. Maybe it's Windows 10? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endtime_Survivors Posted June 28, 2016 Group: Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 67 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 37 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/14/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted June 28, 2016 11 hours ago, Sister said: Hi Diaste That was lovely to read. God bless. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endtime_Survivors Posted June 28, 2016 Group: Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 67 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 37 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/14/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted June 28, 2016 11 hours ago, Diaste said: Not on my laptop. On my phone the conversation stretches off to the right. Until just recently I couldn't get the quote function to work properly on my laptop. It seems to work now. Maybe it's Windows 10? Yeah I was also thinking it was an issue of quotes since the first line of your post was okay. Anyway, keep up the good work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endtime_Survivors Posted June 29, 2016 Group: Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 67 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 37 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/14/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted June 29, 2016 On 6/28/2016 at 2:07 PM, Sister said: I don't see relevant scriptural facts in support of Pre Trib. I see a lot of emotion and fear. This has also been my experience. I don't think anyone looks forward to suffering. Jesus asked for some kind of alternative, but he also had a resolve to move forward with what God wanted for him. I think we can be like that, too. Jesus said that we should pray that the trib won't be in winter or at a time when we're resting etc. The 144k are given at least some miraculous protection (i.e. they are immune from the stinging locust creatures). They get that protection because they are specially marked by God and they get that special marking because they "follow the lamb withersoever he goeth". I think there is an important lesson there. Our best protection is to be willing to follow God where ever he may lead, even if he's leading us into a fiery furnace (i.e. like Meshach, Shadrach and Abednego). Immediately after describing how Christians would be betrayed by their friends and family, how we'd be handed over to authorities, hunted down and killed, he says, "but not a hair of your head will be harmed". Obviously he's talking about a different kind of "harm" than just what happens to our physical bodies. The spirit is infinitely more important than the physical, so while our bodies may suffer and die, our spirit will be protected. The pre-trib theory seems to miss all this; that it is a willingness to forsake everything, including our lives, which gives us power over this world. The Revelation says the saints overcome the Beast by the word of their testimony and by not loving their lives even unto death. Jesus said that no one took his life from him; he chose to lay it down. Look at the impact that choice has had on the world. That choice communicates something powerful that speaks to us deep down inside; integrity, courage, and backbone. The pre-trib theory seems to communicate the opposite to the world; when the going gets rough, the Christians will run away. If God chooses to spare us from the Tribulation, I'll be thrilled, but being spared from trouble isn't the message I see Jesus preaching. God won't give us more than we can take, which means that at an individual level he is intimately involved in what each of us goes through, but concerning the bigger picture of being a witness to the world Jesus' message is one of confronting our fears and showing the world that we really do have something worth dying for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted June 29, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.33 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 29, 2016 On 6/26/2016 at 8:53 AM, Diaste said: I don't see relevant scriptural facts in support of Pre Trib. I see a lot of emotion and fear. This is another Pre-Trib Bashing thread. When the Scriptures are presented in context, they are not accepted or another interpretation is given to avoid the significance. Emotion and fear? Bah! Humbug! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted June 29, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.33 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 29, 2016 1 hour ago, Endtime_Survivors said: The pre-trib theory seems to communicate the opposite to the world; when the going gets rough, the Christians will run away. Well since the Rapture is a supernatural event, Christians don't run away from anything. Enoch was not running away either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Daze Posted June 29, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 29, 2016 1 hour ago, Endtime_Survivors said: This has also been my experience. I don't think anyone looks forward to suffering. Jesus asked for some kind of alternative, but he also had a resolve to move forward with what God wanted for him. I think we can be like that, too. Jesus said that we should pray that the trib won't be in winter or at a time when we're resting etc. The 144k are given at least some miraculous protection (i.e. they are immune from the stinging locust creatures). They get that protection because they are specially marked by God and they get that special marking because they "follow the lamb withersoever he goeth". I think there is an important lesson there. Our best protection is to be willing to follow God where ever he may lead, even if he's leading us into a fiery furnace (i.e. like Meshach, Shadrach and Abednego). Immediately after describing how Christians would be betrayed by their friends and family, how we'd be handed over to authorities, hunted down and killed, he says, "but not a hair of your head will be harmed". Obviously he's talking about a different kind of "harm" than just what happens to our physical bodies. The spirit is infinitely more important than the physical, so while our bodies may suffer and die, our spirit will be protected. The pre-trib theory seems to miss all this; that it is a willingness to forsake everything, including our lives, which gives us power over this world. The Revelation says the saints overcome the Beast by the word of their testimony and by not loving their lives even unto death. Jesus said that no one took his life from him; he chose to lay it down. Look at the impact that choice has had on the world. That choice communicates something powerful that speaks to us deep down inside; integrity, courage, and backbone. The pre-trib theory seems to communicate the opposite to the world; when the going gets rough, the Christians will run away. If God chooses to spare us from the Tribulation, I'll be thrilled, but being spared from trouble isn't the message I see Jesus preaching. God won't give us more than we can take, which means that at an individual level he is intimately involved in what each of us goes through, but concerning the bigger picture of being a witness to the world Jesus' message is one of confronting our fears and showing the world that we really do have something worth dying for. Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endtime_Survivors Posted June 30, 2016 Group: Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 67 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 37 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/14/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted June 30, 2016 4 hours ago, Ezra said: Well since the Rapture is a supernatural event, Christians don't run away from anything. Enoch was not running away either. I suppose so much depends on personal perspective and conviction. That's part of what makes Jesus so appealing to me; he's not interested in the formulae of faith. Over and over again he stresses the need for a deep, personal conviction irrespective of theology. Was Enoch taken up because he performed the correct religious rituals that others had not? What was it about him that God chose to deal with him differently to how he dealt with other humans? So very little is said about him so I am curious as to how others interpret his situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted June 30, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.33 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 30, 2016 59 minutes ago, Endtime_Survivors said: So very little is said about him so I am curious as to how others interpret his situation. 1. Enoch trusted God -- his faith is commended 2. Enoch walked with God 3. Enoch pleased God 3. Enoch was translated/raptured by God 4. Enoch was not a ritualist but a man of faith 5. Enoch was a prophet 6. Enoch was not subjected to tribulation 6. Enoch is a type of the Church Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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