Words of Jesus proves pre-Trib rapture is false

[HAZARD]

7 minutes ago, TehMill said:

...if that is what you want to believe...I leave you to that

I want and do believe what is written in the Scriptures, nothing more. What don't you understand regarding these Scriptures?

 

    1 Thess. 4: 15, For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent7 them which are asleep.
    16, For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
    17, Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them IN THE CLOUDS, TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR:  and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

At His second coming, we will return with Christ to reign as kings and priests, Jude 14; Rev. 19:14; Zech. 14:5.

[TehMill]

That is the rapture, His coming in the clouds "after the tribulation of those days"

 

That day will not come, says Paul, until there has come a falling away and Antichrist is revealed who

"opposes everything called god"

 

That is persecution YOU, he will oppose YOU and sit in the temple declaring that he is himself God...who the Lord will destroy by the breath of His nostrils

So Christ comes at the end of Ac's career not the beginning

Edited July 31, 2016 by TehMill

[HAZARD]

3 minutes ago, TehMill said:

People get tangled up because they will not accept what the scripture says

Jesus said "after the tribulation of those days....they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory"

 

There are not multiple comings of Christ in the clouds...

Your the one who seems to be getting tangled up because you don't seem to understand what the Scriptures are truly saying?

Christ comes and meets the saints in the air, and takes them to Heaven to protect them and keep them from the great tribulation;

1 Thess. 4:17, Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them IN THE CLOUDS, TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR:  and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

After the tribulation, at His second coming, we will return with Christ, His armies from Heaven, with great power and glory, to reign as kings and priests, Jude 14; Rev. 19:14; Zech. 14:5.

[Omegaman 3.0]

20 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

1 Thess. 4:17, Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them IN THE CLOUDS, TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR:  and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Don't leave out the rest . . . 

Since we know that the dead in Christ rise first, followed by the rapture (vs 16 & 17 of 1 Thess 4)  of the living believers, if we only knew if that resurrection was before or after the tribulation, we could understand if the rapture was before or after the tribulation..

Believers who die in the tribulation, for their testimony of Jesus, come to life in the first resurrection, to be followed by the rapture (1 Thess 4:17). 

Rev 20:4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed.) This is the first resurrection. 

We saw in 1 Thess 4,  that the dead in Christ rise first, followed by the living saints in the rapture. Revelation 20 (above)we can see we see the order given is the  first the tribulation, then the catching up of the those who have died in Christ in the First Resurrection, followed by the catching up (rapture) of the living.

[TehMill]

2Thess2 is very plain

1 there is a falling away

2  antichrist is revealed

3 he opposes everything called god

4 he sits in the temple declaring that he himself is God

5 Christ comes and gathers the saints and destroys Antichrist

[TehMill]

Christ returns to gather His saints and to destroy Antichrist....that is the END of Ac not the beginning

[HAZARD]

15 minutes ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

Don't leave out the rest . . . 

Since we know that the dead in Christ rise first, followed by the rapture (vs 16 & 17 of 1 Thess 4)  of the living believers, if we only knew if that resurrection was before or after the tribulation, we could understand if the rapture was before or after the tribulation..

Believers who die in the tribulation, for their testimony of Jesus, come to life in the first resurrection, to be followed by the rapture (1 Thess 4:17). 

Rev 20:4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed.) This is the first resurrection. 

We saw in 1 Thess 4,  that the dead in Christ rise first, followed by the living saints in the rapture. Revelation 20 (above)we can see we see the order given is the  first the tribulation, then the catching up of the those who have died in Christ in the First Resurrection, followed by the catching up (rapture) of the living.

   V. 18, Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

[WilliamL]

4 hours ago, HAZARD said:

Not so, here is what Jesus Christ said, in His own words;

Jesus told the disciples that some would escape the terrible things that were to transpire on the Earth in the last days.

He said, “Pray that you may be accounted worth to escape all these things of, Matt. 24 and 25;  Luke 21:1-19, 25-28, that shall come to pass, and stand before the Son of man,” Luke 21:34-36. These two passages in Luke 21:34-36 and John 14:1-3, are the only ones in the Gospels that are clear concerning the Rapture.

You can escape trials/tribulation, but still be upon earth when they transpire for others. This principle is proved by the prophecy of Rev. 12, about the Woman that flees to the wilderness for protection and provision. Therefore, neither of your two proof texts above actually prove your belief that the Rapture will come before the Trib.

2 hours ago, TehMill said:

That is the rapture, His coming in the clouds "after the tribulation of those days"

 

That day will not come, says Paul, until there has come a falling away and Antichrist is revealed who "opposes everything called god"

 

That is persecution YOU, he will oppose YOU and sit in the temple declaring that he is himself God...who the Lord will destroy by the breath of His nostrils

So Christ comes at the end of Ac's career not the beginning

This can only be true IF the Son of Perdition is the same as "Antichrist." Not a single scripture says so. John was the only biblical author who used the term, and John prophesied nothing about that one for the End Times. Everything that people say about "the Antichrist" in our day is a doctrine of men, not Scripture.

[OakWood]

4 hours ago, TehMill said:

People get tangled up because they will not accept what the scripture says

Jesus said "after the tribulation of those days....they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory"

 

There are not multiple comings of Christ in the clouds...

Correct. There are no multiple comings of Christ. Only one.

Jesus does not come back to rescue Christians from the Tribulation. Christians endure and suffer the Tribulation. They are not exempt from it - there are no special favours!

Christians are only rescued after the Tribulation when the antiChrist is finally defeated and when God pours out his wrath on the wicked. When evil pours out wrath (such as during the Tribulation) everybody who happens to be there can be subject to it.

The Tribulation is an act of cruelty  carried out by the antiChrist. During this period the righteous are persecuted and the wicked are not. Never before in history has God carried out any rescue mission to stop the righteous from persecution. There may be individual cases where certain persons were protected, but collectively the righteous endured tribulation and either they survived it or they didn't. The Great Tribulation will be no exception. Nobody is going to be raptured to safety before it starts.

Only when the Tribulation ends will God rapture the righteous because he does not want to the righteous to suffer his vengeance when he pours it out upon the Earth.

Pre-Tribbers are deluded and they are ignorant of scripture! They believe themselves to be the first and only righteous people in history to be whisked to safety before things get really bad.

Noah was rescued from the Flood because the Flood was an act of retribution by God and God does not punish the righteous.

Lot was warned of the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah because God does not punish the righteous and the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah was a righteous act of vengeance carried out by God.

The Tribulation is NOT an act of God - it is an act of evil where righteous man are persecuted and some even beheaded because they refuse to take the mark. Because it is not an act of God,the righteous will not be lifted to safety by God.

The wrath that comes at the END of the Tribulation is god's revenge on the wicked for what they did during the Tribulation and because of their refusal to repent. Because it is God's revenge, and because God does not punish the righteous but only punishes the wicked, the righteous will escape God's wrath.

To be put it simply:

GREAT TRIBULATION - Christians endure it and suffer.

POST-TRIBULATION WRATH OF GOD - Christians are rescued (raptured).

It's really simple to understand - it's not rocket science, but no matter how many times you explain  this to the pre-Trib crowd, they can never seem to understand the difference between acts of God and acts of evil. They are arrogant and full of pride and sincerely believe that they deserve to escape the wrath of evil that will occur, despite no other Christians in history being given this privilege before them.

They are completely deluded and the PreTrib theory is a LIE.................!

 

[WilliamL]

8 hours ago, OakWood said:

The Tribulation is an act of cruelty  carried out by the antiChrist.

 

11 hours ago, WilliamL said:

John was the only biblical author who used the term, and John prophesied nothing about that one for the End Times. Everything that people say about "the Antichrist" in our day is a doctrine of men, not Scripture.