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Only for those with eyes to see and ears to hear

ZacharyB

By ZacharyB
in Apologetics

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Guest shiloh357

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4 minutes ago, Thallasa said:

Well that is different, than saying if you believe and say with your mouth etc; No He does'nt throw us away when we mess up ,but if there is no cooperation from us ,it indicates arrogance and a lack of Love . We are not talking about messing up, we are talking about relationship   . In all relationships which have any value, both sides try to please in some way or other .

God says He made us in His image so we are not act like lazy pigs ,but like His children .

The problem is that salvation isn't something we cooperate with God.  We are not his equals.  We are not partners with God in salvation.   He needs nothing from us.  We are the ones in need.   We don't have anything to offer where salvation is concerned.   Salvation is God's work alone and He alone gets the credit and the glory for it.   That is not arrogant on his part at all.  

We do have a part to play in the relationship, but we have no part to play in salvation.   We are to be obedient as His children.   We are too live for Him on account of the salvation we have received, but it is the height of arrogance on our part if we think that God needs our help where salvation is concerned.

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Jayne
Jayne

Zachary, I don't think you understand anyone else's position at all. Here's the thing on the internet when someone comes along and says things like "God has called me to ... [correct all you peop

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is that right?  But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. (Romans 4:5)  If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He

woundeddog
woundeddog

a relationship with the Lord is much more than just staying out of hell--- because he saves us unconditionally we love him and want to be more like him and to live in a manner (as much as humanly poss

Guest Thallasa

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Posted
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29 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

The problem is that salvation isn't something we cooperate with God.  We are not his equals.  We are not partners with God in salvation.   He needs nothing from us.  We are the ones in need.   We don't have anything to offer where salvation is concerned.   Salvation is God's work alone and He alone gets the credit and the glory for it.   That is not arrogant on his part at all.  

We do have a part to play in the relationship, but we have no part to play in salvation.   We are to be obedient as His children.   We are too live for Him on account of the salvation we have received, but it is the height of arrogance on our part if we think that God needs our help where salvation is concerned.

 Well I believe what I believe, and you have your own interpretation  . I did not say we play a part in our initial salvation ,but He did not give us free will, and make us in His image without reason .

We will l leave it at that .

Guest shiloh357

Guest shiloh357

Posted
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51 minutes ago, Thallasa said:

 Well I believe what I believe, and you have your own interpretation  . I did not say we play a part in our initial salvation ,but He did not give us free will, and make us in His image without reason .

We will l leave it at that .

We don't play a part in salvation at all.  You either trust in yourself or you trust in God.  Your interpretation is false.  Salvation is Jesus + 0.  That is the only biblical way too look at it.   We have free will to accept him and we have free will to obey.    But we have no part to play getting saved or staying saved.  How could we?  It would require us and God being equal partners and we are NOT His equals.

Guest Thallasa

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35 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

We don't play a part in salvation at all.  You either trust in yourself or you trust in God.  Your interpretation is false.  Salvation is Jesus + 0.  That is the only biblical way too look at it.   We have free will to accept him and we have free will to obey.    But we have no part to play getting saved or staying saved.  How could we?  It would require us and God being equal partners and we are NOT His equals.

 Thats right ,we have free will to accept or to reject ,so we re not totally passive .

Guest shiloh357

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Posted
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21 minutes ago, Thallasa said:

 Thats right ,we have free will to accept or to reject ,so we re not totally passive .

I never said it was passive.  But accepting or rejecting doesn't equal a partnership in salvation with God.

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4 hours ago, Thallasa said:

I note how selective the OSAS people are in their quotes . Interesting as I thought you would know better .


i know better than to be afraid that God will not be faithful to do in me what i have trusted in Him to do. i know better than to accuse Him of not being sincere when He talks about having chosen me, purchased and purposed me. that's all -- i could probably find hundreds of verses to illustrate this, but there do happen to be a couple dozen of them that make very strong statements related to this -- however even if there were only a handful, they can't be brushed aside as if they aren't there, and since there are in fact many - i think i ought to know better than to second-guess them all. 

but like i said early in the thread ((not sure if you've read all of it)) -- the common accusation against having a confident faith is that it 'leads believers to go on living however they choose in all kinds of sin' -- and this is ignorant, because the exact same salvation from damnation that i am sure of is the same salvation from my old nature, that is a salvation unto a righteous life and all good works prepared for me. i don't know how i should 'know better' than that - but i think Christians should 'know better' than that, if they have truly been redeemed. 



 

SIC

SIC

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7 hours ago, kwikphilly said:

Blessings SIC,,,

The most important & significant WORD in all the Bible to me is this "IF",,,,,,

But not there(above),,,,,,Here,,,,,,,

See,that is the point,,,,,,"IF" we love Jesus than we WILL,,,,,,,,                        With love-in Christ,Kwik

I understand what you are saying & I personally do not ever take my Salvation for granted as though I would imagine myself above being beyond any temptation or lures of this world,not saying that there is anything I do or don't do that can cause me to "lose" my Salvation ,,,,,but I do consider the "choice",,,,,,,,I don't believe that anyone can lose their Salvation,not accidentally or by unknowingly do something against God,,,,,,,,no,not at all,,,,,,,,,,again,I do not think OSAS is a proper term & I do not leave out that some person could not want to hold on to the Grace of God

I guess what I am saying is that if the devil ,who was in the Presence of God Himself,in Heaven,Embraced by the Glory of God,could give that all up then perhaps someone would?There is no Scripture that tells me this is not possible except that Jesus said "IF" you love ME,,,,,,,I think if you truly LOVE HIM,you are Saved & would never want to leave Him......that's all I'm saying ,I believe I just don't like the term OSAS,sounds pretty arrogant,it is truly ALL About the Finished Work on the CRoss & only through Jesus,A Precious Gift that I would not want to chance by thinking I could do whatever I please,,,,,,I suppose it is because I am Saved that I just can never do enough to say "Thank You Jesus"        (just some thoughts)

That is my point isnt it Philly. Jesus is making the statement " If you love me you will keep my commands". Which means that he is also implying that there is a possibility of any one of them ceasing to love Him ...

SIC

SIC

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Posted
6 hours ago, Thallasa said:

Well that is different, than saying if you believe and say with your mouth etc; No He does'nt throw us away when we mess up ,but if there is no cooperation from us ,it indicates arrogance and a lack of Love . We are not talking about messing up, we are talking about relationship   . In all relationships which have any value, both sides try to please in some way or other .

God says He made us in His image so we are not act like lazy pigs ,but like His children .

That is why I have also been trying to say. We need to cooperate and work in tandem with God

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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, SIC said:

That is why I have also been trying to say. We need to cooperate and work in tandem with God

Working in tandem with God would equate us to being equal partners with God.  This is not the case. 

What sort of a God would leave us hanging never knowing for sure till we stood in front of him after our death?

Edited by Out of the Shadows
Guest shiloh357

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49 minutes ago, SIC said:

That is why I have also been trying to say. We need to cooperate and work in tandem with God

Nowhere in the Bible does it say that.    The Bible says that we are live in obedience to God.   We are not his partners.   We are not his equals in the relationship.    We do  work with God.  We work for Him.   He is Father and we are children.   He is the master; we are His servants.  He is the head of the body.

We need to get the nature of our relationship straight from the outset.

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