A Catholic belief-- Worshipping saints?

[learning boy]

Hello brothers/sisters!

After a fair amount of time spent chatting about this idea with some members, I feel like It would be efficient if I made it a post.

In the shortest way possible, the question is : How do Catholics actually view the saints?

Some information: It seems that the Catholic belief of saints has been a little misconceived, but nonetheless very controversial. Before touching on how a Catholic 'worships' a saint, I think it is fair to point that some Catholics may have exaggerated their belief of what a saint actually is. If you look in Catholic churches, you may find candles mounted with statues of supposed saints ( reminding us very well of how idols were shown in the older times ) and these sorts. Now one can confidently say that in Christianity, the one lone person who deserves worship is God, our Jesus Christ. Although Catholics tend to observe this as well, I think it is fair to say that maybe we should look at what they actually consider what saints are?

Most of my friends are Catholics, and information from them concerning how saints are went like this: Their general view tells me that because saints have a close relationship with God, It is possible to intercede from them, praying towards God, on behalf of them. Some members on the forum told me that this counts as idolatry, because only Jesus deserves to be worshiped and no one can intercede for Jesus Christ. Now I do see why this can initially show offense, but I, not being Catholic nor Christian, may find a better understanding of it. I will give an example of how a Catholic actually may perceive the intercession of a saint: 

We will have three people. Ben, Bob , and Bill . Ben is the moderator of a website, and Bob and Bill are sub-moderators. Now I come in, wanting to also be a sub-moderator of this site. I will say to Ben " Hello Ben! On behalf of Bob and Bill (the sub-moderators of the site) may I be a sub-moderator as well? " --- You will see I haven't actually asked Bob and Bill for anything. The question was entirely directed to Ben , but I merely referenced Bob and Bill because as they are sub-moderators to Ben, they will have a better name to themselves then If I used somebody like Bart( Bart is our fourth person, being a normal member). Ben chose Bob and Bill to be sub-moderators, for their knowledge and skill, and so referencing them may give me a better chance of Ben accepting my proposal of being a sub-moderator as well. 

Does this example above count as idolatry? I will appreciate feedback and criticism where applies. 

I will apologize beforehand for any Catholic who took offense to anything in this thread -- I do not have all the knowledge and I could have definitely misconstrued something. My aim is to clear up possible confusion with how Catholics view a saint, because in our Abrahamic religions, idolatry is not welcome.

[Omegaman 3.0]

I would say briefly, that what a great many Catholics believe about saints, is that they are special people, recognized by the Catholic Church. The Bible, on the other hand, just sees saints and people called by God to holyness, set apart for His purposes. That would include all true believers.

For what it is worth, the word saint in the Bible, is always used in the plural, no one is ever referred to as a saint, as in "Saint Paul", for example.

[Steve_S]

Simply put, the catholics believe that they decide who are and aren't saints based on a process called canonization. This is done posthumously and involves a few steps, such as investigating the life of the person in question, how they lived, their deeds, etc.. It also includes beatification, which is basically a "verification" of a miraculous occurrence being attributed to their intercession after death. Basically, in lay terms, this means that someone was to have prayed for them to intercede with God, after they are dead, and then that prayer is answered, indicating, in the opinion of the catholic church, that the person is in heaven and that God is answering their prayers. This typically has to occur one more time and then, after this process, they are canonized.

Not to beat around the bush, none of this is mentioned in the actual bible. The bible mentions saints many times throughout both the old and new testament, but it is either directly plural or in the plural sense with the one instance of the singular version being Philippians 4:21 (Php 4:21  Greet every saint in Christ Jesus. The brethren who are with me greet you. ) The bible never mentions a process, at all, like the one mentioned above. The general understanding of the word as it stands amongst evangelical and most general protestant denominations is that the saints are followers of Christ, people whose ultimate faith lays in God. I believe that the greek root in this instance actually means something along the lines of "one who has been made holy" or something along those lines (I fully admit that I am no greek expert by any stretch). All of my brothers and sisters here are saints, as are all the ones who have physically passed on before me.

As far as your idolatry question with regard to prayers to the saints, firstly, anything can be turned into an idol. If a person puts their faith in their desk or in a blade of grass, they have made it an object of worship. Again, I turn to the bible, to point out that there is not one single instruction to request intercession from, to pray to, or to worship those among the brethren who have physically passed on. There are certainly examples of requests for prayer by people who are still physically present here on earth:

Eph 6:17  And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God; 
Eph 6:18  praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints—
Eph 6:19  and for me, that utterance may be given to me, that I may open my mouth boldly to make known the mystery of the gospel, 

There are also examples of Paul (who is the above writer) saying he will pray for others:

2Ti 1:3  I thank God, whom I serve with a pure conscience, as my forefathers did, as without ceasing I remember you in my prayers night and day,

There are no examples of anyone requesting any prayer from those who have physically passed and, indeed, there are also imperatives against attempting to communicate with spirits and people who are no longer physically present (called necromancy in the bible).

In short, this is a practice based on tradition that has been developed over centuries in the catholic church. There is no biblical basis for either the canonization process or prayer to saints. Whether or not it is idolatry in a technical sense, it is certainly not a biblically rooted practice.

[George]

Did the Apostles receive worship?

Act 10:25  When Peter entered, Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and worshiped him. 
Act 10:26  But Peter lifted him up, saying, "Stand up; I too am a man." 

Act 14:11  And when the crowds saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in Lycaonian, "The gods have come down to us in the likeness of men!" 
Act 14:12  Barnabas they called Zeus, and Paul, Hermes, because he was the chief speaker. 
Act 14:13  And the priest of Zeus, whose temple was at the entrance to the city, brought oxen and garlands to the gates and wanted to offer sacrifice with the crowds. 
Act 14:14  But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard of it, they tore their garments and rushed out into the crowd, crying out, 
Act 14:15  "Men, why are you doing these things? We also are men, of like nature with you, and we bring you good news, that you should turn from these vain things to a living God, who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and all that is in them. 
Act 14:16  In past generations he allowed all the nations to walk in their own ways. 
Act 14:17  Yet he did not leave himself without witness, for he did good by giving you rains from heaven and fruitful seasons, satisfying your hearts with food and gladness." 
Act 14:18  Even with these words they scarcely restrained the people from offering sacrifice to them. 
 

[kwikphilly]

Blessings learning boy....

     I was surprised to know that "most" of your friends are catholics,that's different.......so,may I ask,how did you come to islam?Or perhaps you asre referring to the acquaintances you made on the internet,just wondering?

     Both Omegaman & Steve have addressed your question and of course,George,there is not really much to add    I can only say that we are a non-denominational Christian Ministry that has many Christians from both denominations & non,catholicism has many different sects within itself     I was raised a catholic,my family were catholics & the order I was taught by did teach this misinformation,most do   It is not what we see in the Word of God,yes it is idolatry and just a false doctrine.Now ,that does not mean every individual that is catholic is an idolator,I know many catholics myself that read the Bible(not the catholic version) & they do have a very clear Understanding of what is Written,unadulterated       Personally,I don't like to categorize people,Jesus certainl;y does not...He looks at the heart of every individual,He is our Personal Lord & Savior                                                            Praise Jesus!               With love-in Christ,Kwik