Guest shiloh357 Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 3 minutes ago, Qnts2 said: There is a tax used to feed the poor. At the end of every three years, bring all the tithes of that year's produce and store it in your towns, so that the Levites (who have no allotment or inheritance of their own) and the aliens, the fatherless and the widows who live in your towns may come and eat and be satisfied, and so that the Lord your God may bless you in all the work of your hands. (Dt 14:28-29) That goes to feed the truly poor and needy who had no means to take care of themselves. You cannot compare that to taxing us so that able-bodied people can stay at home and freeload off of the rest of us. Quote Our current system of welfare definitely has flaws but when caring for others, is it better to be so aware of cheaters that the law makes it harder on those with real needs? In my view, I would rather some cheaters slip by to make sure those who have a real need do not go hungry. The cheaters will be judged by God, but an overly tight fisted rule which harms the needed will be judged also. It is better to be more generous (higher taxes), to help the needed. Complete and utter nonsense. The fraud that is happening in our current system is rampant. It is far worse that just a few cheaters getting buy. It rewards lazy people and in reality, takes funds away from the truly needy. We need to more tightfisted so that only the truly needy get welfare. It would force a lot of lazy people off of their couch and into the work force. Higher taxes is a really, really dumb idea and it has never worked. We have never taxed our way into prosperity. The liberal approach is always, spend, spend, spend. They never talk about personal responsibility. The correct way to handle the problem is to lower taxes and create an environment that is more favorable to job growth; real job growth that brings prosperity. Create an incentive to go to work by forcing them off of welfare. That may not be the way the silly Democrats want to go, but that's the only correct way and the only that will work and the only way that will actually reduce poverty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 5 minutes ago, Qnts2 said: I think you need to read more. At the end of every three years, bring all the tithes of that year's produce and store it in your towns, so that the Levites (who have no allotment or inheritance of their own) and the aliens, the fatherless and the widows who live in your towns may come and eat and be satisfied, and so that the Lord your God may bless you in all the work of your hands. (Dt 14:28-29) If there is a poor man among your brothers in any of the towns of the land that the Lord your God is giving you, do not be hardhearted or tightfisted toward your poor brother. Rather be openhanded and freely lend him whatever he needs. Be careful not to harbor this wicked thought: "The seventh year, the year for canceling debts, is near," so that you do not show ill will toward your needy brother and give him nothing. He may then appeal to the Lord against you, and you will be found guilty of sin. Give generously to him and do so without a grudging heart; then because of this the Lord your God will bless you in all your work and in everything you put your hand to. There will always be poor people in the land. Therefore I command you to be openhanded toward your brothers and toward the poor and needy in your land. (Dt 15:7-11) The second verse shows that when we lend to a poor person, do not be concerned if he will pay it back or not. Not everyone can work, or pay it back. In otherwords, mail him a check with no expectation of payback. Be willing to throw money at the need/problem. You are basing everything on the cheaters and caring little for the needy. So the needy are hurt to protect yourself against the frauds. Sorry, but that kind of system hurts everyone. No, Deut. 14:28-29 are benefits provided for those who cannot fend for themselves or had no one to take care of them. No one is talking about not being generous to the truly needy and poor and giving people a hand up. The Democrats ignore the rampant fraud being perpetrated on the welfare system. It's not that no one knows, but no one cares, about it. You are willing to let the cheaters get away with scamming the government just to benefit the truly needy. Problem is that by doing that you are hurting the needy by giving away money that would be used for the truly needy to the scammers and cheaters. So your approach demonstrates why liberals should NEVER be in charge of economy. The liberals are happy to let Hillary Clinton scam America and lie through her teeth. They will still vote for her. So it is not surprising that the same liberal "Christians" are okay with letting others break the law and cheat the system. It's really disgraceful and unchristian to the core. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 10 minutes ago, kwikphilly said: Call me stupid but what does this have to do with the Topic? Revelation Man gave a good try t o put this discussion back on point but it did not seem to do the trick,can the "Welfare" debate get it's own Thread? It certainly is a Topic that would get many replies but this is a "de-rail" It speaks to the divide between how liberals look at poverty vs. the Christian view of poverty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qnts2 Posted July 20, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,875 Content Per Day: 0.71 Reputation: 1,336 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/13/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted July 20, 2016 12 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: That goes to feed the truly poor and needy who had no means to take care of themselves. You cannot compare that to taxing us so that able-bodied people can stay at home and freeload off of the rest of us. Complete and utter nonsense. The fraud that is happening in our current system is rampant. It is far worse that just a few cheaters getting buy. It rewards lazy people and in reality, takes funds away from the truly needy. We need to more tightfisted so that only the truly needy get welfare. It would force a lot of lazy people off of their couch and into the work force. Higher taxes is a really, really dumb idea and it has never worked. We have never taxed our way into prosperity. The liberal approach is always, spend, spend, spend. They never talk about personal responsibility. The correct way to handle the problem is to lower taxes and create an environment that is more favorable to job growth; real job growth that brings prosperity. Create an incentive to go to work by forcing them off of welfare. That may not be the way the silly Democrats want to go, but that's the only correct way and the only that will work and the only way that will actually reduce poverty. In my opinion, the bible says the poor will always be with us, so nothing will totally eliminate the poor. I have no problem helping people who are able, get jobs. In my opinion, that would involve a government program to train people. Training would include assistance learning financial planning, setting goals, receiving education to qualify for jobs, etc. That should be a part of the welfare system, but that costs money. Right now, truly disabled people have a huge fight to get disability. The government automatically denies disability for most people, and the person must go through a lengthy appeal process to get disability. You speak of personal responsibility on the poor, but there is also a personal responsibility for everyone to support welfare for those in need having compassion. It is not compassion to call the poor lazy, freeloaders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwikphilly Posted July 20, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 307 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,136 Content Per Day: 4.63 Reputation: 27,817 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted July 20, 2016 Yes Shiloh,I understand why it evolved & also YOUR intention but it has evolved into a debate irrelevant to the Topic at hand & the question the OP posed(see above post) which,I imagine, will not end anytime soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qnts2 Posted July 20, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,875 Content Per Day: 0.71 Reputation: 1,336 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/13/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted July 20, 2016 25 minutes ago, kwikphilly said: Call me stupid but what does this have to do with the Topic? Revelation Man gave a good try t o put this discussion back on point but it did not seem to do the trick,can the "Welfare" debate get it's own Thread? It certainly is a Topic that would get many replies but this is a "de-rail" Sorry, but Christians I know vote Democratic because they believe in the Welfare system. The question was, can a person be 'liberal' and a Christian. My answer was simple. A Christian can be, because they view the welfare system as a biblical mandate. My answer is not a derailment, but is a direct answer to the question based on real Christians who vote for 'liberal' candidates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwikphilly Posted July 20, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 307 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,136 Content Per Day: 4.63 Reputation: 27,817 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted July 20, 2016 Okay good,,,so then you are saying "Yes" a person can be both Christian & liberal or just Christgians who may vote for liberals,not really themselves being liberal?A person is liberal for not only one reason ,;not one view or perspective,right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qnts2 Posted July 20, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,875 Content Per Day: 0.71 Reputation: 1,336 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/13/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted July 20, 2016 12 minutes ago, kwikphilly said: Okay good,,,so then you are saying "Yes" a person can be both Christian & liberal or just Christgians who may vote for liberals,not really themselves being liberal?A person is liberal for not only one reason ,;not one view or perspective,right? A person can vote liberal for one reason only, if they view that reason as very important. I also know some Christians who take the liberal view on environmentalism so vote liberal. They view it as biblical to care about the condition and treatment of the environment. Adam was put in charge of care of the animals. Care of the environment is viewed as caring for future generations. The Mosaic law includes laws, such as letting fields lie fallow, not harvesting from trees under a certain age, etc. There are environmental laws in the Mosaic law. Christians who vote conservative do not necessarily agree entirely with the conservative agenda, and Christians who vote liberal do not necessarily agree entirely with the liberal agenda, but there are issues which are viewed as most important which sway a person to vote either liberal or conservative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angels4u Posted July 20, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 56 Topic Count: 1,664 Topics Per Day: 0.20 Content Count: 19,764 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 12,164 Days Won: 28 Joined: 08/22/2001 Status: Offline Share Posted July 20, 2016 54 minutes ago, kwikphilly said: Call me stupid but what does this have to do with the Topic? Revelation Man gave a good try t o put this discussion back on point but it did not seem to do the trick,can the "Welfare" debate get it's own Thread? It certainly is a Topic that would get many replies but this is a "de-rail" Kwik,. you're right, this is off the topic, I started another thread ,it is an important topic to be discussed~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwikphilly Posted July 20, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 307 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,136 Content Per Day: 4.63 Reputation: 27,817 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted July 20, 2016 Yes Angels,thank you.....great idea! Quote A person can vote liberal for one reason only, if they view that reason as very important. Okay,you believe their decision can be based on one issue alone but you are still wording it as "voting liberal",if I ,as a Christian,vote on a liberal candidate for a specific reason that was important to me(which would not happen because the candidate has more than one matter to address & not just my one & only interest ) it does not make me a "liberal"....so I am still not sure of your answer Can a Christian BE liberal,in y our opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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