who is the antichrist?

[Remnantrob]

19 minutes ago, Salty said:

Well, if it were the papacy, then he best be getting on with doing the great signs, wonders, and miracles, raining fire down from heaven in the sight of men, because those are the kind of supernatural manifestations the coming Antichrist is to do, as written.

Not only that point, but in Matt.24:23-26, our Lord Jesus showed us just how powerful in deception those signs and wonders will be, when He said that if possible, it would deceive His very elect servants. His elect cannot be deceived, because they are sealed by The Holy Spirit for the end. So what level of powerful deception do those miracles represent, if it could almost... deceive Christ's own very elect chosen ones? What does it mean for brethren weak in the Faith?

This is why the coming "great tribulation" is not going to be about war, nor chaos in the street, etc. It is going to be a time of world peace, because the coming Antichrist is going to literally fool the majority into believing he is God having come to earth. And those of us who refuse to believe will be singled out for not bowing in worship. That has NEVER happened in world history to this day. And it certainly will not be pulled off by some flesh born man in Rome.

Words like certainly could lead to deception.  He's already united with Lutherans and other protestants proclaiming that the protest (protestant reformation) is over.  He is leading the charge for global climate change.  He is promoting world peace. Everyone loves him.  Miracles can't be too far way.  Just saying.  

[7thseal]

5 hours ago, Salty said:

There's 2 beasts described in that Rev.13 Chapter. But the subject about them switches, so we have to be careful. When the "dragon" is mentioned you know that's about Satan himself. But when it's talking about the ten horns, seven heads, or like the animal symbols in Rev.13:2 from the old beast kingdoms in Daniel 7, then it's talking about the system, the idea of a kingdom.

The ten horns, leaders are mentioned later in Revelation as their names not written in the book of life. So it is placed in their hearts (by God) to hand over their powers to him (Antichrist). Ten leaders (over land) which is well described in the one world government plans (divisions) . Its going to come down to one... the Antichrist whom satan enters into once cast down to earth.

[Salty]

5 hours ago, Remnantrob said:

Words like certainly could lead to deception.  He's already united with Lutherans and other protestants proclaiming that the protest (protestant reformation) is over.  He is leading the charge for global climate change.  He is promoting world peace. Everyone loves him.  Miracles can't be too far way.  Just saying.  

A pope is just not who the Scriptures are pointing to. It's pointing to the "dragon" and that is a title for Satan only. Moreover, it is pointing to a pseudo-Messiah. That means one coming disguised as The Messiah which orthodox Jews will believe on. Cannot leave the Jewish-Jerusalem element out in favor of an old Reformer school view of a pope as the Antichrist.

[7thseal]

8 minutes ago, Salty said:

A pope is just not who the Scriptures are pointing to. It's pointing to the "dragon" and that is a title for Satan only.

I agree, but there will be a false prophet working all the same powers as the Antichrist and pointing to him as god. Look at when Christ returns and the dragon leaps out of the Antichrist and a demon comes out of the false prophet. Both of the people fall to the ground because their powers are now gone. Don't overlook the false prophet, whomever he may be.

[Salty]

1 hour ago, 7thseal said:

The ten horns, leaders are mentioned later in Revelation as their names not written in the book of life. So it is placed in their hearts (by God) to hand over their powers to him (Antichrist). Ten leaders (over land) which is well described in the one world government plans (divisions) . Its going to come down to one... the Antichrist whom satan enters into once cast down to earth.

Yes, the ten kings of Rev.17. The Antichrist or "little horn" of Dan.7 which he will represent, will subdue 3 of those ten kings.

Again, concerning the devil only influencing a fleshy Antichrist, like what Satan did with Peter, that I do not see. Today at this time Satan is free to influence flesh man (if they allow it), likewise his angels can do the same. The spiritual world is not limited to space and time like our earthy dimension is. This is a topic that really ought to have its own thread, since it is much misunderstood from Scripture of how Satan will work for the trib.

When our Lord Jesus returns to this earth as written, it is then that Satan will be cast into his pit prison for the 1,000 years (Rev.20). In John 14 our Lord Jesus foretold us that Satan was coming to our world, pointing to the very end:

John 14:28-30
28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved Me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for My Father is greater than I.

29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.

30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in Me.
KJV

Our Lord Jesus was saying how they heard Him saying He was going away, and would come again. And He told them that before it happened so when it did happen they would believe. And then after that, i.e., His ascension to The Father, He would not talk much with them. Then He laid out the fact that "the prince of this world cometh". Now this is just before He was delivered up to be crucified, but... He covered the time after He ascended to The Father, which moves this event of the prince of this world coming to what time? To a time after... our Lord Jesus's ascension to The Father. This shows that Satan is still not locked in chains today, and that he is coming to earth.

 

 

[Last Daze]

15 minutes ago, 7thseal said:

I agree, but there will be a false prophet working all the same powers as the Antichrist and pointing to him as god. Look at when Christ returns and the dragon leaps out of the Antichrist and a demon comes out of the false prophet. Both of the people fall to the ground because their powers are now gone. Don't overlook the false prophet, whomever he may be.

Of the evil trio (dragon, beast, false prophet) only the false prophet is seen.  The dragon and the beast are evil angels.

[Salty]

Just now, 7thseal said:

I agree, but there will be a false prophet working all the same powers as the Antichrist and pointing to him as god. Look at when Christ returns and the dragon leaps out of the Antichrist and a demon comes out of the false prophet. Both of the people fall to the ground because their powers are now gone. Don't overlook the false prophet, whomever he may be.

I mentioned my understanding on that before. Of course those I posed it to didn't like it.

The "false prophet" and "beast" of Rev.16 & 19 I interpret to be roles like characters in a stage play, all pointing directly to Lucifer and his beast kingdom.

Nowhere in God's Word do we find it written that ANY flesh born man is judged and sentenced to perish in the "lake of fire". This is why even our Lord Jesus was careful to not directly condemn anyone born flesh to the "lake of fire", simply because the time of His Judgment Seat is not yet. He instead would say things like being in danger of hell fire when speaking directly to people, or things like how can you escape the fire of hell, etc., but He did not say directly to anyone they are going to perish in the "lake of fire". Even Judas Iscariot has not been judged and sentenced to perish yet.

The only ones written that have already been judged and sentenced to perish is Satan and his angels. This is why a title like Apollyon is another title for Satan in Rev.9. Apollyon comes from Greek apollumi which means 'to destroy, or to perish'. It is the Greek base used for "perdition" in the KJV NT. This is why in 2 Thess.2 with the title "son of perdition", which is also applied to Judas, is not about Judas in that 2 Thess. 2 Chapter, but about Satan as the Antichrist.

Also, in the Greek, the word antichrist can mean 'instead of' or 'in place of', not just simply against. In 2 Corinthians 11, Apostle Paul showed us how Satan transforms himself into an angel of light. The Greek word for KJV "transformed" can mean 'to transfigure or disguise'. And in that Chapter Paul was warning us about the "another Jesus". Not just an antichrist, but literally "another Jesus" which others would falsely preach. Let's see, same Chapter about "another Jesus" and Satan disguised as an angel of light? I don't think the real warning there from Paul is all that difficult to figure out.

Same thing by our Lord Jesus in Matt.24:23-26. Earlier in that Chapter He warned about many Christs coming in His name. But in the 23-26 verses He was warning of a specific pseudo-Christ (Greek pseudochristos) that would work great signs and wonders that if possible would deceive even His very elect.

So there's more going on there in Scripture than just some idea of a flesh man as the Antichrist being possessed by Satan.

 

 

[Salty]

6 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

Of the evil trio (dragon, beast, false prophet) only the false prophet is seen.  The dragon and the beast are evil angels.

Per Rev.12:9 and 20:2, the "dragon" is simply another title for Satan. It is not a separate angel.

The "beast" idea is simply a title for something else also. It is an idea, like the "brute beasts" nature Peter and Jude mentioned. In Daniel 4 we were given a more literal example of it with Neb going into the wild and living like an animal (which is a known disease).

That nature is simply being applied to Satan, because indeed he represents the ultimate 'beast' nature, and the beast idea also is applied to kingdoms under beast kings. In Rev.12:3-4 we are shown the previous existence of a beast kingdom of ten horns, seven heads, but only seven crowns, which was when Satan drew a third of the stars (angels) into rebellion with him against God. That happened long... ago, yet it is there in front of the next Rev.13 chapter's descriptions of a final beast system to be setup for the end of this world.

This is why the "beast" going into the "lake of fire" at Rev.19 is about the destruction of Satan's beast kingdom he will establish during the trib, and also his role as its beast king.

Likewise with the false prophet, that is a role that Satan will play in promoting worship of himself, for our Lord Jesus was a Prophet. It's like Satan will say to the orthodox unbelieving Jews, "I am He, The Messiah you have waited for", and they are gonna' believe it. That false prophet role will of course go into the "lake of fire" also at Rev.19, and be no more.

So that brings us to after the 1,000 years reign of our Lord Jesus and His elect, for Satan is to be locked into his pit prison for that 1,000 years, and then loosed one final time at the end of it. What then, as Rev.20 says he is loosed to go deceive the nations? Will Satan need those false prophet and beast roles again then? No, as it suggests those who follow him that final time will do so in full knowledge that they are following the Devil. But for our time, the majority will not know the coming Antichrist will be Lucifer in person also.

 

[7thseal]

15 hours ago, Salty said:

for our Lord Jesus was a Prophet.

 

He is the Son of God, having the same power. He is God in the flesh.

[Salty]

5 hours ago, 7thseal said:

He is the Son of God, having the same power. He is God in the flesh.

Yes, most definitely, Jesus is Immanuel, which means 'God with us' (Matt.1:23; Isaiah 7).