frienduff thaylorde Posted March 25, 2018 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 17 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 13,257 Content Per Day: 5.24 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 62 Joined: 07/07/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/25/1972 Share Posted March 25, 2018 2 minutes ago, Heleadethme said: oh don't I? .....guess I can't read either......where it says Adam was a figure of he who was to come. Look it up brother and see if you need to re-calibrate your thinking. Sis you might want to tell them abou HOW paul used the two brothers ISSAC and ISHMAEL and used an allegory to show how it was this way in the SPIRIT too. Its in galations . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 5 hours ago, one.opinion said: Oh, I’m much more than an opinion, I’m a child of God. But I do recognize what I present here is opinion, and not fact. After all, we ALL “see through a glass darkly” at this time. This is a list of doctrinal points I gather from Genesis 1-3: 1. God is the omnipotent Creator. 2. God created humanity in a special way. Unlike the rest of God’s creation, humans are intended to have a spiritual relationship with their Creator. 3. Adam and Eve chose their own way over their Creator’s. 4. They brought sin into the world and all of humanity since that time is born with the weight of sin. 5. God has a plan to restore that spiritual relationship with every man, woman, and child. 6. That restoration would be achieved by the redemptive work of Jesus Christ, as He would take on the form of humanity. If you (or @shiloh357, @Yowm, @Sojourner414) feel I have missed something or find error in the doctrinal points I derive from Genesis 1-3, please let me know. I can tell you what you're missing. You're missing a clear understanding of what an allegory is, because you have consistently argued that the account is allegorical. If it is nothing but an allegory and is non-historical, it means that God doesn't exist, as God is part of the allegory, God didn't create a planet or a universe, there was no humanity, there was no fall, thus there is no sin or sinful nature and sin is not in the world and whatever Jesus died for it wouldn't be sin, since sin was just part of the allegory. And if it was just an allegory, then marriage is whatever you want it to be because there was no adam and eve that was made husband and wife by God, and there is no need for salvation because we would not really be sinners, hence your claims about Jesus dying for us make sense. If you maintain that is allegory, then not one of the doctrinal points you made is true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heleadethme Posted March 25, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 15 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,371 Content Per Day: 1.33 Reputation: 3,268 Days Won: 5 Joined: 07/10/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted March 25, 2018 4 minutes ago, frienduff thaylorde said: cause many would have used that against you oh, I'm not worried about that brother......Jesus said many things that they used against Him, it doesn't worry me at all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one.opinion Posted March 25, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,240 Content Per Day: 2.07 Reputation: 1,356 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/03/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted March 25, 2018 17 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: And if it was just an allegory, then marriage is whatever you want it to be because there was no adam and eve that was made husband and wife by God, and there is no need for salvation because we would not really be sinners, hence your claims about Jesus dying for us make sense. If you maintain that is allegory, then not one of the doctrinal points you made is true. I revised my terminology as we discussed this last weekend. I don’t hold a truly allegorical approach from the strict definition of the word because I do believe in a physical, not just spiritual, Adam and Eve. I also believe that their choice of their own way over God’s introduced sin into the world. Thanks for bringing up marriage. That is another doctrinal issue that I believe comes from Genesis 1-3. I believe God’s intent is for it to be between one man and one woman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heleadethme Posted March 25, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 15 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,371 Content Per Day: 1.33 Reputation: 3,268 Days Won: 5 Joined: 07/10/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted March 25, 2018 18 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: That is referring to a type or shadow, not an allegory. You clearly don't know what you're talking about and as I said, you have no discernment. okay brother, I'm just using the term colloquially, but I guess that word is not technically correct in every detail as to how I actually meant it.......so I'll try and remember to just say figurative from now on to be more precise..............so can I take it you do agree that at least some of what is written in Genesis is figurative then? As in symbolic, representative? Interestingly Merriam-Webster's dictionary gives us the following definition and example for the word figure: 4 : a person, thing, or action representative of another Adam … who is the figure of him who was to come —Romans 5:14 (King James Version) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 37 minutes ago, frienduff thaylorde said: Sis you might want to tell them abou HOW paul used the two brothers ISSAC and ISHMAEL and used an allegory to show how it was this way in the SPIRIT too. Its in galations . Yes, but when the Bible uses allegory it tells us that it is allegory I think we have a lot of people here who don't take the time to look up what allegory is. Adam is said to be a type of Christ, not an allegory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 Just now, Heleadethme said: okay brother, I'm just using the term colloquially, but I guess that word is not technically correct in every detail as to how I actually meant it.......so I'll try and remember to just say figurative from now on to be more precise..............so can I take it you do agree that at least some of what is written in Genesis is figurative then? As in symbolic, representative? No, figurative is wrong as well. Adam was a type of Jesus. He was not figurative or symbolic. "Figurative" refers to literary devices like similes, metaphors, hyperbole, idioms, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heleadethme Posted March 25, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 15 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,371 Content Per Day: 1.33 Reputation: 3,268 Days Won: 5 Joined: 07/10/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted March 25, 2018 1 minute ago, shiloh357 said: Yes, but when the Bible uses allegory it tells us that it is allegory I think we have a lot of people here who don't take the time to look up what allegory is. Adam is said to be a type of Christ, not an allegory. Yes, Adam represented Christ symbolically..........so the point does stand that some of Genesis is symbolic then, I'm glad we are agreed on that. It certainly makes a huge difference in how we approach it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frienduff thaylorde Posted March 25, 2018 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 17 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 13,257 Content Per Day: 5.24 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 62 Joined: 07/07/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/25/1972 Share Posted March 25, 2018 5 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: Yes, but when the Bible uses allegory it tells us that it is allegory I think we have a lot of people here who don't take the time to look up what allegory is. Adam is said to be a type of Christ, not an allegory. I get what you saying . but on that note , watch this , I am out . I wont aruge over this . nope I hope one day your name will be Shiloh J316 yeah I tend to stay mainly on JESUS sayings. I KNOW what you are saying . Just sit and listen to what this sister says . you will find out yall might not be disagreeing , you might just be misunderstanding . Or not . but be ready to hear . both sides need to slow down a bit . Try and really reason it out . Me , I stick mostly to exhorting on contending for JESUS the real faith , HIS sayings and to beware of false ones etc. SO . Ya have a blessed day now . I am out of this one . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heleadethme Posted March 25, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 15 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,371 Content Per Day: 1.33 Reputation: 3,268 Days Won: 5 Joined: 07/10/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted March 25, 2018 (edited) 18 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: No, figurative is wrong as well. Adam was a type of Jesus. He was not figurative or symbolic. "Figurative" refers to literary devices like similes, metaphors, hyperbole, idioms, etc. Yikes......it's been a long long time since I was in school learning grammar.........we could be defining terms all day long and never get to the point of the matter. Also a bit worried it is taking the thread off topic. The KJV bible that I have uses the word "figure"....so i concluded that must mean figure-ative...? I like to use the term "living parable"....that certain things did happen historically as written.......but the reason for writing it, and the manner in which it was written, was for the purpose of conveying truth through the living parable of what happened. Like the Israelites were a living parable of the church, our ensample. Just like the fictional parables that Jesus told, we are to get the meaning of the lesson in a similar way, through the Lord enlightening the word picture to our understanding. I will have to leave it at that though, or I'm in danger of tying myself up in knots. Edited March 25, 2018 by Heleadethme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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