kwikphilly Posted October 12, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 307 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,136 Content Per Day: 4.63 Reputation: 27,817 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted October 12, 2016 Blessings Judas May I ask where you are getting your "historical' information in reference to the way you believe the earliest "churches " were started & so on & so on,,,,,what outside of Bible & rcc sources have you researched? Much of the "facts" you are mentioning are supported by whom,where,when? With love-in Christ,Kwik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyAngeL Posted October 12, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 23 Topic Count: 155 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,464 Content Per Day: 1.02 Reputation: 8,810 Days Won: 57 Joined: 03/30/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/12/1952 Share Posted October 12, 2016 Kwik beat me to the same question. I too would like to know where your getting your information. Blessings, RustyAngeL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwikphilly Posted October 12, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 307 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,136 Content Per Day: 4.63 Reputation: 27,817 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted October 12, 2016 Rusty,I think I missed something here or it bis that "dyslexic" time for me,I am usually in bed long before now-lol Quote Well I believe that person is with the Lord. What person? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woundeddog Posted October 12, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,370 Content Per Day: 0.25 Reputation: 1,054 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/21/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/18/1868 Share Posted October 12, 2016 (edited) On 10/9/2016 at 9:57 AM, Judas Machabeus said: youve been indoctrinated. Many of your views are simple not based on facts purely properganda that has been perpetuated by generations of anti-catholic pastors JM, I am sure you are sincere in your convictions- my guess would be you are a cradle catholic and have never really looked at both sides but have spent your energies exclusively studying Catholic apologetics. There is nothing I can say or no clever argument on my part that will change your heart. I have looked at both sides and spent many hours in spiritual labor looking for the truth as God shown it, and I know now what that is, and I am completely secure in the fact that my sin has been dealt with by Jesus shed blood, and I need no mediator between him and me- because he is the only mediator between me and the Father- I can boldly approach the throne of grace- confess my sins to Him and they are forgiven, because they have already been paid for by the ONE TIME sacrifice of Jesus blood. I need no sacrament or holy act out side of faith and confession to maintain my walk with the Lord-- by his grace only- excluding ANYTHING I could do to justify myself before him--- And that is the foundation of the TRUE church which Christ built upon Himself (not Peter) and which the gates of hell will not prevail against. an additional thought--- you know, as long as you are alive there is nothing preventing you from thinking this through and accepting the gift that Jesus is offering you-- he says " Come to me all you who are weary and heavy laden and I will give you rest"-- JM you can have that rest too, you do not have to be bound to senseless traditions Edited October 12, 2016 by woundeddog more thoughts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_S Posted October 12, 2016 Group: Servant Followers: 25 Topic Count: 275 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 5,208 Content Per Day: 1.00 Reputation: 1,893 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/02/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted October 12, 2016 Please let's remember to keep it civil here in this discussion. I have not taken action to remove anyone from the thread, but things are getting a bit too personal. It is always best to remember to debate the subject and not the person. It would be best if focus was returned to the topic and not the people who are debating the topic (from both sides). God bless, Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Judas Machabeus Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 25 minutes ago, woundeddog said: my guess would be you are a cradle catholic and have never really looked at both sides but have spent your energies exclusively studying Catholic apologetics. You are incorrect, I have made it no secrete that I do not ascribe to Protestant theology. But you see woundeddog, your assessment of me only spending my energies exclusively studying Catholic apologetics falls flat. And you are a witness to that right now as you are reading my words. I'm on a fundalmentalist Christian forum that has some anti-Catholics and some hostile anti-Catholics. You see I am seeking out the truth even from those who are hostile towards my views. Every time I enter into a discussion with members here I am studying both sides. I share my believes and they are very quickly challenged. That forces me to test my believe and so far my believes have held up. I continue to come here (I just recently returned from a 6 month hiatus) because of folks like you. You have not resorted to name calling or other attacks. You have defended your position as I have too. It's been a very pleasant exchange of ideas. I'm sure it won't be the last. Cheers PS to anyone reading my comments regarding the anti-Catholics. That is not and was not meant to be a board brush. I am not saying all, or most here are anti-catholic. I'm just saying there is a small element/ very small number of members I would say fall into that category. Most memebers (almost all) I encounter are good well meaning Christians. And I am great full for that. Gid Bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Judas Machabeus Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 1 hour ago, kwikphilly said: Blessings Judas May I ask where you are getting your "historical' information in reference to the way you believe the earliest "churches " were started & so on & so on,,,,,what outside of Bible & rcc sources have you researched? Much of the "facts" you are mentioning are supported by whom,where,when? With love-in Christ,Kwik Kwick, could you point to something I've said... doesn't need to be an exact quote. More a topic you are thinking of and I can give you a specific answer. generally I will enter a topic into google and look for a Protestant source, a secular source and than an early church source. I'll compare all three with scripture and those that don't line up are discarded. As for specific sites and resources it really depends on the topic of the moment. Cheers ***** I read your post to quickly and didn't realize you did ask something specifically***** my resources are primarily scripture. The Apostles went out and preached and faith communities formed and thus Churches came into existance. All of Paul's letters where to Churches. In Revelation we see the letters to the various Churches. Hope that answers the question if not ask for clarification and I'll do my best. I know RustyAngel was asking the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Judas Machabeus Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 35 minutes ago, Steve_S said: Please let's remember to keep it civil here in this discussion. I have not taken action to remove anyone from the thread, but things are getting a bit too personal. It is always best to remember to debate the subject and not the person. It would be best if focus was returned to the topic and not the people who are debating the topic (from both sides). God bless, Steve My comment about being indoctrinated may fall under this and truly was not my intention so apologies to Woundeddog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwikphilly Posted October 12, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 307 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,136 Content Per Day: 4.63 Reputation: 27,817 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted October 12, 2016 That was really nice Judas,I'm sure woundeddog will look over some of his as well,I know you guys are better than that stuff earlier,BROTHERS......I know because I see Jesus Shining through Okay Judas,I will just say that is exactly why I asked,may I suggest something? Now you also have to take into account that I was raised rc,,,I mean c'mon,Italian from NYC,,,,,,sheesh! So,you never hear me bashing any denomination,right? That's right! I will not do that,they all have a little somethng "off" here or "off" there but in the end,I don't care because if you are just like me then you are simply "whosover" ....... Quote John 3:16“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” Excuse me one minute,brb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwikphilly Posted October 12, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 307 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,136 Content Per Day: 4.63 Reputation: 27,817 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted October 12, 2016 Sorry,I'm back.... Anyway,as I said ,Judas,I was rc but something just wasn't right ,,,,,IO was an academic ,honor student type kid & I loved knowledge,,,,,things got so bad with the whole "religion thing" that I simply rebelled,I had a bad taste in my mouth from RELIGION & by that I mean "'organized religion" ,,,,the church,traditions,customs,nuns,priests,rituals,customs,,,,,point is,it didnn't sit well with ME,personally & so I began my mission,my journey...to seek the TRUTH.....what is LIFE all about? Well,in my intellectual educated mind I figured that if I could refute even just one thing in the Bible(Catholic Duoay at that time),then it was all hogwash & I could do whatever I please,couldn't I? Maybe be my own god! Well,there was one problem,I had known Jesus,I was passionately in love with Him from the time i could remember my earliest memories I started with mere beginnings,I began to research Bibles & Translations,,,from there it took me back & back & back and before I knew it,to my surprise I was studying Koine Greek because the earliest texts were not Latin as I was lead to believe & then with more study & research I had to make an attempt at Ancient Hebrew,,,,,wow,I found out,the catholics had nothing to do with the Holy Scriptures,,,,,,Oh boy,was in way over my head Okay,I have to try to shorten this up,I'm really tired.......Judas,I ended up over a couple of decades of research outside of biblical sources,Constantine,Josephus,archeological digs,sites ,findings,ancient fragments of papyrus of consensus etc,,,,so much due diligence I was obsessed .....I became obsessed because the more I studied & searched the more PROOF I was getting that confirmed Gods Word.....every time I thought"Aha,I got Him(God)" it ended up with more support!!!! Well,pretty early on in this mission of mine,I discovered the role of the catholic church,they had nothing to do with the early church fathers Judas,neither did any other denomination You simply cannot go to the rcc to destroy it's credibility,it won't happen & would you really trust a source that only has "itself" to corroborate what it says,,,,they are men Judas Now,when it came to the simple ,unadulterated Word of God(2 separate sources right there,,,,,,Torah vs New Testament (Jews vs Christians)...hmmm?The Word of God is irrefutable,,,, Oay ,but consider this,we are NOT talking about the Word of God right now,we are talking about an organized religion that claims to have been the source,earliest church etc,,,etc,,,,, All I can say is,where are you getting your information,you see?Now here is my suggestion,you say you have a Relationship with Jesus,right? You ARE a whosoever,right? Just like me? Well,the for you & for me ,,,,this is no longer a Salvational issue,right? If you have agreed up to this point then all I will ask you is to do some research,I'm not asking you to go to some catholic-lies .org for research,I'm talking dig a little deep,,,,if they truly are who they say they are i am not asking you to expose them as false,no! I am asking you to prove that they have told you the TRUTH,,,,,,Hows that sound,it won't take you a week,a month but maybe some more time han you care to spend,,,,,for me,I just had to know & guess what? It was because I had Jesus that I found out Gods Truth,all of it My research took me to places I hope no one ever goes,but I was not after the "church" I was after GOD,,,,,He Allowed me to go into the wilderness & that is what made me WHO I am this day IN CHRIST.....you neednt go there Judas but please ,ask God that you remain Receptive,with a teachable heart & mind......Love,Kwik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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