Predestination, All Things are Determined by God, Even the Outcome of a Roll of a Dice

[christiang]

6 minutes ago, kwikphilly said:

Perhaps you are confusing predetermination with predestination,let's be clear

 

Both are true, God predestines and God predetermines.

[kwikphilly]

I do believe predestination but not predetermination..........they are completely different & the God I know has not determined my poor choices & bad judgements because of my unreliable heart & mind    My God is Loving,Kind,Compassionate & Patient,,,,also Full of Grace to compensate for my mistakes,He certainly did not program me to practice in the occult before I forsook my flesh,that was my choice & in spite of it He got me through it    He did not determine should have cancer either but knew I would & He took me through that ,,,,,,it was not His Will I should be sick,He wants me to have good health,a sound mind & body & a Life More Abundant

[christiang]

3 minutes ago, kwikphilly said:

I do believe predestination but not predetermination..........they are completely different & the God I know has not determined my poor choices & bad judgements because of my unreliable heart & mind    My God is Loving,Kind,Compassionate & Patient,,,,also Full of Grace to compensate for my mistakes,He certainly did not program me to practice in the occult before I forsook my flesh,that was my choice & in spite of it He got me through it    He did not determine should have cancer either but knew I would & He took me through that ,,,,,,it was not His Will I should be sick,He wants me to have good health,a sound mind & body & a Life More Abundant

If God has made the mute, the deaf, the blind,

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Then the LORD said to him, “Who has made man’s mouth? Who makes him mute, or deaf, or seeing, or blind? Is it not I, the LORD? (Exodus 4:11 [ESV])

Why should you not think that God did not determine your infirmity to occur? Was Job, who was blameless before God, not also struck with disease,

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Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil. And he still maintains his integrity, though you incited me against him to ruin him without any reason." (Job 2:3 [NIV])

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So Satan went out from the presence of the LORD and afflicted Job with painful sores from the soles of his feet to the crown of his head. (Job 2:7 [NIV])

Yet still, Job blessed the name of the Lord, because he knew, that just as God brings forth good, does he also bring forth evil,

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And he said, “Naked I came from my mother’s womb, and naked shall I return. The LORD gave, and the LORD has taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.” (Job 1:21 [ESV])

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But he said to her, “You speak as one of the foolish women would speak. Shall we receive good from God, and shall we not receive evil?” In all this Job did not sin with his lips. (Job 2:10 [ESV])

Yet God brings forth evil on the elect to test and see if the elect will still bless his name, even in adversity. And also, God did predetermine for men to sin, as you have mentioned in your prior sins in the occult, for how could God have demonstrated his forgiveness if God had first not predetermined sins to occur to then forgive?

[kwikphilly]

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Why should you not think that God did not determine your infirmity to occur? Was Job, who was blameless before God, not also struck with disease,

So you think God caused mine & Jobs afflictions.............even though Gods Word tells us the adversary did so?

Sounds to me we serve 2 different Gods......my Heavenly Father has never caused me harm by His Power,,,,,,NEVER will

[Ezra]

1 hour ago, Pierre said:

There is no free will as that is a false teaching taught by men.

If there was no free will, then the Bible would not speak about "freewill offerings".  Kindly consult Strong's Exhaustive Concordance and look up that term. We should not take Proverbs 16:33 beyond what is revealed there.
 

If, as you say, what a man chooses is determined by God, then that becomes Determinism, and God becomes ultimately responsible for every evil deed and heinous crime on the face of the earth.  Think about that.

 

[christiang]

17 minutes ago, kwikphilly said:

So you think God caused mine & Jobs afflictions.............even though Gods Word tells us the adversary did so?

Sounds to me we serve 2 different Gods......my Heavenly Father has never caused me harm by His Power,,,,,,NEVER will

You clearly do not understand the works of God, as even Jesus Christ was appointed to suffer by the will of God,

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Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will." (Matthew 26:39 [NIV])

And even the elect are appointed to suffer,

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Indeed, all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted, (2 Timothy 3:12 [ESV])

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For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake, (Philippians 1:29 [ESV])

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So do not be ashamed of the testimony about our Lord or of me his prisoner. Rather, join with me in suffering for the gospel, by the power of God. (2 Timothy 1:8 [NIV])

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Now if we are children, then we are heirs–heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory. (Romans 8:17 [NIV])

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strengthening the disciples and encouraging them to remain true to the faith. “We must go through many hardships to enter the kingdom of God,” they said. (Acts 14:22 [NIV])

So why should it come as a surprise that if sufferings are appointed by God, that he would not also appoint infirmities to test the elect?

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Remember how the LORD your God led you all the way in the wilderness these forty years, to humble and test you in order to know what was in your heart, whether or not you would keep his commands. (Deuteronomy 8:2 [NIV])

As I said, no one who doesn't understand that God determines all things to occur can possibly understand God.

[christiang]

8 minutes ago, Ezra said:

If there was no free will, then the Bible would not speak about "freewill offerings".  Kindly consult Strong's Exhaustive Concordance and look up that term. We should not take Proverbs 16:33 beyond what is revealed there.
 

If, as you say, what a man chooses is determined by God, then that becomes Determinism, and God becomes ultimately responsible for every evil deed and heinous crime on the face of the earth.  Think about that.

 

So that he may judge every evil deed,

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The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. (Revelation 20:13 [NIV])

How else could God demonstrate that he judges and punishes the wicked had he first not appointed the wicked to commit their sins?

[kwikphilly]

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If, as you say, what a man chooses is determined by God, then that becomes Determinism, and God becomes ultimately responsible for every evil deed and heinous crime on the face of the earth.  Think about that.                                          Ezra

That is exactly what I have been saying Brother     Amen!

[kwikphilly]

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42 minutes ago, kwikphilly said:

So you think God caused mine & Jobs afflictions.............even though Gods Word tells us the adversary did so?

Sounds to me we serve 2 different Gods......my Heavenly Father has never caused me harm by His Power,,,,,,NEVER will

You clearly do not understand the works of God, as even Jesus Christ was appointed to suffer by the will of God,                              Pierre

Jesus IS God Peirre,,,,,,,,,,,,,He  reduced Himself to servitude to pay the price for us,in full,,,,,,you are not only trying to say God causes all our suffering but also that our suffering counts for something,as in works      

[kwikphilly]

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How else could God demonstrate that he judges and punishes the wicked had he first not appointed the wicked to commit their sins?

So God programs man to commit sin so that He can judge them for what He made them do,,,,,,at this point it has no edification to even continue