Let Us Not Forsake The Old Way.

[ravindran]

1 minute ago, COGTHW said:

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. John 3:5

Again, picking a verse and making theology out of it is not the right way to read Bible! Why Jesus didn't simply say one must be baptised to be saved? Because, it will contradict rest of the Scripture. Please read the preceding verses

3 Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. ² This man came to Jesus^[a] by night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him.” ³ Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again^[b] he cannot see the kingdom of God.” ⁴ Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?” ⁵ Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. ⁶ That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.^[c] 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You^[d] must be born again.’⁸ The wind^[e] blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

Nicodemus is curious to know about Salvation. First we see Jesus only saying one must be born again. In 3rd verse, Jesus is not talking about water at all. It is simply being born again. Then Nicodemus confuses that with physical birth. He think one must be born again in the womb of mother. Then Jesus clarifies, one must be born of water and Spirit. Jesus is saying, one must be born physically and then born of the Spirit to be saved. It is not to say one must be baptised in water and Holy Spirit. That interpretation would not make sense if you consider context of the verse. Then Jesus continues to speak and enforce the idea of being born of Spirit.

We should not choose a verse and make meaning without applying it in context.

[COGTHW]

Churchmouse John 3:5

[Churchmouse]

4 minutes ago, COGTHW said:

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. John 3:5

Isn't that being baptized in the blood of the lamb and beng born again by accepting him as our Lord a savior. How is that a quote/unquote old way.

[COGTHW]

And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days. Acts 10:48

[ravindran]

3 minutes ago, Churchmouse said:

Agreed. I have no idea what this person is trying to discuss. I don't thing there was ever a path to heaven under the old testament. If I'm wrong, please correct me because I am far from a Biblical authority, but Jesus dieing on the cross was the only thing that completes the connection severed by Adam and Eve, so long ago.

Ya, the path to heaven in Old Testament was by looking up to the Savior and Cross. The path to heaven in New Testament was by looking back to the Savior and Cross. In OT, people performed sacrifices which symbolized Jesus and His sacrifice. In NT, we perform things like baptism, communion which symbolize spiritual rebirth and remember work of Jesus on Cross

[Jaydog1976]

23 minutes ago, COGTHW said:

John 3:5 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. ; Acts 2:38 then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Ok so again as I said before COGTHW your doctrine is very faulty. I love how you are picking and choosing a verse here or there to try and defend your position. As believers we must look at the scriptures as a whole and compare scripture with scripture. What I find interesting is that you are somehow thinking that "born of water" is baptism. It isn't. If it was Jesus would have said, "Except a man be baptized and have the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God". But we know this is not the case.

Born of water has the idea that we are to be cleansed of our sins and that can only be done through Jesus Christ. Same idea when Jesus spoke to the woman at the well,   "Jesus answered, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again,  but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life. John 3:13-14 NIV”. Obviously Jesus wasn't talking about real water. He was using a metaphor here showing that we much change internally in our hearts and that only Christ can do that. Remember Jesus used symbols and pictures to explain truths. 

COGTHW you are taking a very literal approach to a word picture. 

 

 

Edited November 4, 2016 by Jaydog1976

[Churchmouse]

2 minutes ago, COGTHW said:

Churchmouse John 3:5

I have read that and the texts before and after, which explains, in depth what Jesus was saying, but I still don't understand why you call that the old way, when it is the only way, even until today.

[ravindran]

1 minute ago, Jaydog1976 said:

Ok so again as I said before COGTHW your doctrine is very faulty. I love how you are picking and choosing a verse here or there to try and defend your position. As believers we must look at the scriptures as a whole and compare scripture with scripture. What I find interesting is that you are somehow thinking that "born of water" is baptism. It isn't. If it was Jesus would have said, "Except a man be baptized and have the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God". But we know this is not the case.

Born of water has the idea that we are to be cleansed of our sins and that can only be done through Jesus Christ. Same idea when Jesus spoke to the woman at the well,   "Jesus answered, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again,  but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life. John 3:13-14 NIV”. d Obviously Jesus wasn't talking about real water. He was using a metaphor here showing that we much change internally in our hearts and that only Christ can do that. Remember Jesus used symbols and pictures to explain truths. 

COGTHW you are taking a very literal approach to a word picture. 

 

 

You are right! It is so wrong to pick a verse, read it out of context and create doctrine out of it! It is a dangerous practice and will lead to many false teachings

[COGTHW]

36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing. Acts 8 ; baptism in the name of Jesus Christ. Baptism=water 

[Churchmouse]

3 minutes ago, ravindran said:

Ya, the path to heaven in Old Testament was by looking up to the Savior and Cross. The path to heaven in New Testament was by looking back to the Savior and Cross. In OT, people performed sacrifices which symbolized Jesus and His sacrifice. In NT, we perform things like baptism, communion which symbolize spiritual rebirth and remember work of Jesus on Cross

What I'm asking is, was the animal sarifices that were set down in the old testiment  able to geive everlasting life or jusr repentace of the sins that had been done in Israel?