Something I have to correct

[Salty]

9 hours ago, Robert said:

Sister, I will refer back to my studies and notes and try to give you an answer as best I can about Babylon. It's late here, but I felt I needed to reply to A_Hobo's post, as it was grotesque. My apologies for not having something ready sooner.

-Robert

Why even bother replying to A_Hobo's post, his junk is clearly whack.

[Guest Robert]

3 hours ago, inchrist said:

Worthy Christian Forum has a duty to ban and delete Fasle prophets especially when one calls for mass murder.

A hobo goes by the name flaminggg on Theology on line. Where you will find the same babbling

http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?117999-Going-Beyond-quot-May-21-quot-to-quot-June-6-2016-quot-666

A_HoBo prophesied the following

6/6/2016 to 6/18/2016 = Intersections of both Lunar Cycles = Sign of Antipas/Antiparticle/Divorce for 12 Days.

REVELATION 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Red = Sign of Divorce/Antipas/Antiparticle

According to A_Hobo during the  period 6/18/2016 to 6/21/2016 we are to kill as many non whites as we can as he believes non-whites are genetic Dan. Apparently he has authority to command us too. It would not surprise me that A_Hobo believes he is one of the two witnesses

He also asked North Korea to launch  weapons to destroy Malaysia, but they decided to challenge his authority.

Its all here:

http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?117999-Going-Beyond-quot-May-21-quot-to-quot-June-6-2016-quot-666

Mods you need to ban this individual and delete his postings....This is satanic.

I have to agree with you on this one, inchrist: any rebukes to this individual are going to fall on deaf ears, as he will simply keep proclaiming his "authority". Since he won't listen, the flock here needs to be protected (which a shepherd should be doing), and this person removed.

Edited November 13, 2016 by Robert

[Sister]

4 hours ago, Serving said:

Hi Sister,

Well, I've thought long & hard on this and must say that I can see it too.

AND .. you know what comes clearer now with this interpretation?

This sequence which bothered me for so long .. now it sits nicely and makes sense : 

Rev 14

(A) 6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

                                                                                                              THEN 

(B) 8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

                                                                                                             THEN

(C) 9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

See how that sits nicely now? .. perfect match !! 

So Sister, yes .. i agree with rev 18 interpretation .. it makes total sense.

Hi Serving

That's great!  Praise the Lord. 

 

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HOWEVER : I don't agree with this thing here :

 

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The ten kings are the ones who bring in the new laws, and this chapter depicts trade and commerce being done away with.  Somehow it is going to be removed.  This is how the 10 kings eat the whores flesh and burn her with fire.

Interesting times ahead.

 

Quote

 

Think about this .. Babylon's system is replaced right .. so everything that was done IN Babylon's system is now gone FROM Babylon's system .. IN her trade is no more simply because she is DISMANTLED, SHE is no more .. but the new system .. the new system is where the trade will take place INSTEAD .. probably in a way that the rich can no longer manipulate and all their previous wealth and ill gotten gains gathered IN the Babylon system no longer of value or note, that is, everybody starts in the new system equally .. 

Remembering that craft prospers under the false prophet .. and one can not have craft without factories/workers/technology etc .. so trading BY that old system will NOW be done under the new system instead .. that would be WHY nothing gets done in Babylon anymore .. nothing done BY that system nor BY her trade laws anymore .. but will be done BY the new system instead .. it doesn't have to mean that global trade itself ends, just the system it was conducted under. 

Think on it ..

 

Yes you are absolutely right.  Something like what you said.  I am still trying to sort it out in my head with the fine details, and I can only guess.  You described it perfectly.

  I should of said;

and this chapter depicts trade and commerce being done away with....under that old system.

 

However, glad you can see the overall point here in that, Chapter 18 is not the Coming, but the coming of the new system under the full go ahead of the 10 kings starting .....that little point in time that has to come first.

Things are getting more clearer everyday, that's why I don't like to claim that I know it all, but still learning.  It never ends.

 

[Sister]

4 hours ago, Salty said:

You and I differ in that I don't quite speculate that far about the different manifestations of the system. The metaphors of OT symbols like Babylon can easily apply to Satan's whole system of working from the beginning of this world, yes.

Agreed.

Yet in Revelation, our Lord is pointing directly to Jerusalem as being the Babylon harlot, because the last verse of Rev.17 says the woman is a "great city". It's a given that Babylon represents Satan's systems of confusion because the word it's derived from means confusion, and that's essentially where all false religion began, back to Sumer (and Cain I believe).

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The ancient Assyrian tablets records of one named Sargon I who was a Semite that appeared among the Sumerian "blackheads" around 3800 B.C. (Sayce's original date); he became their king, gave them knowledge of agriculture and canal building, and built their first city. His metal death mask is in the British museum showing his facial features. Within that time after Sargon appeared there, the oldest written account pointing to the creation exists in those ancient cuneiform tablets (but it's an account masked in pagan jargon). I strongly believe Sargon was Cain. Ancient Sumer later became Babylonia, Assyria, and Babylon. Ussher and Bullinger put the date of God forming Adam in His Garden at 4004 B.C. Subtract 3800 from 4004 and it's only 204 years difference, which is another reason why I believe Sargon I was Cain. In the tablets Sargon was called 'son of Bel', etc. That area is where the very first pagan worship sprang up (See Bristowe's work Sargon The Magnificent).

Interesting, I have to process this a little.  My first thought, Cain was before the flood.  Assyria was after the flood.  Cain and his whole lineage died in that flood.  Only Noah survived with his wife and 3 sons and their wives.  Anything after the flood, would come out of either Shem's, Japeth's, or Ham's line.  I know that when Babel was destroyed, it was Shem's lineage that settled and built Assyria.

 Genesis 10:11   Out of that land went forth Asshur, and builded Nineveh, and the city Rehoboth, and Calah,

 1 Chronicles 1:17   The sons of Shem; Elam, and Asshur, and Arphaxad, and Lud, and Aram, and Uz, and Hul, and Gether, and Meshech.

Nineveh was in Assyria.  Just the land, not the kingdom yet who would take over Egypt after the Hebrews were freed, but the land of Assyria that gave birth to all different gods after Babel was destroyed, and it was at that time the land of "trade".

So now this makes more sense;

  Numbers 24:24   And ships shall come from the coast of Chittim, and shall afflict Asshur, and shall afflict Eber, and he also shall perish for ever.

 Genesis 10:21   Unto Shem also, the father of all the children of Eber, the brother of Japheth the elder, even to him were children born.

 
  Ezekiel 27:23   Haran, and Canneh, and Eden, the merchants of Sheba, Asshur, and Chilmad, were thy merchants.

  Ezekiel 32:22   Asshur is there and all her company: his graves are about him: all of them slain, fallen by the sword:

  Hosea 14:3   Asshur shall not save us; we will not ride upon horses: neither will we say any more to the work of our hands, Ye are our gods: for in thee the fatherless findeth mercy.

When god spiritually speaks of Assyria, or Asshur, or Eber, not only is he speaking of the false gods that came out of there, but specifically speaking about the land of trade.  Merchandise.  This is what man has mainly worshiped, material things made with man's hands.  It becomes another god.  The love of mammon that has survived throughout time, through trading and buying and getting rich of her.

Asshur shall not save us, .....merchandise, trade, money, wealth shall not save us.  It all started there in Ninevah Assyria.  Trade.

[Sister]

Salty

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The fact that God labels Jerusalem as the Babylon harlot when false-Messiah sets up his reign there involves an idea much more weighty than just the kingdoms of this world. It involves Satan trying to create a mimic of God's Kingdom, here on earth, and tricking as many of God's people as possible, into worshiping him instead. Because Rev.13 tells us about bowing to the image of the beast, that's a direct parallel to the days of Daniel when you associate Babylon with it. So we're possibly talking about some kind world-wide representation of that image for all the nations to bow in worship to.

God labels Jerusalem as Sodom and Egypt, not Babylon but of Babylon.

 Revelation 11:8   And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

A thought just came to mind.  Was not Jerusalem also in Babylon?  A part of that "great city" also? 

Babylon's children despise truth, prefer material things, ...don't like to give up worldly things for the Lord.  Babylon's children killed the Lord, and the Hub of Babylon spiritually was there in Jerusalem, where Satan was at that time. 

Which mother were Jerusalem serving at that time.?  Babylon's mother or mother Zion?

 Matthew 12:40   For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Jesus was not dead for 3 days and 3 nights, only dead for 2 nights and rose the third day, but he was captured and put in the hands of Babylon, then killed.  All happened in the heart of the earth, and the earth's heart is in Babylon.

Egypt were the oppressors.  To spiritually be called Egypt, you have to oppress others. 

Sodom were filthy,...If you read the book of Jasher, it speaks of Sodom in more detail. They  had their celebrations every year, and the men would take their wives and daughters, into town and let any man take them, whilst they turned a blind eye.   Also any one who would sojourn through their land, they would rob and kill.  They were false accusers, and their kings gave no justice to the innocents.  They stripped a man of everything he had. 

I see Babylon as being both of these, and Jerusalem became a part of that Great City.

[Sister]

Jeremiah 51:24   And I will render unto Babylon and to all the inhabitants of Chaldea all their evil that they have done in Zion in your sight, saith the LORD.

 Jeremiah 51:49   As Babylon hath caused the slain of Israel to fall, so at Babylon shall fall the slain of all the earth.

 

Jeremiah 51:58   Thus saith the LORD of hosts; The broad walls of Babylon shall be utterly broken, and her high gates shall be burned with fire; and the people shall labour in vain, and the folk in the fire, and they shall be weary.

 

  Micah 4:10   Be in pain, and labour to bring forth, O daughter of Zion, like a woman in travail: for now shalt thou go forth out of the city, and thou shalt dwell in the field, and thou shalt go even to Babylon; there shalt thou be delivered; there the LORD shall redeem thee from the hand of thine enemies.

 Zechariah 2:7   Deliver thyself, O Zion, that dwellest with the daughter of Babylon.

[Salty]

14 hours ago, Sister said:

Agreed.

Yet in Revelation, our Lord is pointing directly to Jerusalem as being the Babylon harlot, because the last verse of Rev.17 says the woman is a "great city". It's a given that Babylon represents Satan's systems of confusion because the word it's derived from means confusion, and that's essentially where all false religion began, back to Sumer (and Cain I believe).

Interesting, I have to process this a little.  My first thought, Cain was before the flood.  Assyria was after the flood.  Cain and his whole lineage died in that flood.  Only Noah survived with his wife and 3 sons and their wives.  Anything after the flood, would come out of either Shem's, Japeth's, or Ham's line.  I know that when Babel was destroyed, it was Shem's lineage that settled and built Assyria.

 Genesis 10:11   Out of that land went forth Asshur, and builded Nineveh, and the city Rehoboth, and Calah,

 1 Chronicles 1:17   The sons of Shem; Elam, and Asshur, and Arphaxad, and Lud, and Aram, and Uz, and Hul, and Gether, and Meshech.

Nineveh was in Assyria.  Just the land, not the kingdom yet who would take over Egypt after the Hebrews were freed, but the land of Assyria that gave birth to all different gods after Babel was destroyed, and it was at that time the land of "trade".

So now this makes more sense;

  Numbers 24:24   And ships shall come from the coast of Chittim, and shall afflict Asshur, and shall afflict Eber, and he also shall perish for ever.

 Genesis 10:21   Unto Shem also, the father of all the children of Eber, the brother of Japheth the elder, even to him were children born.

 
  Ezekiel 27:23   Haran, and Canneh, and Eden, the merchants of Sheba, Asshur, and Chilmad, were thy merchants.

  Ezekiel 32:22   Asshur is there and all her company: his graves are about him: all of them slain, fallen by the sword:

  Hosea 14:3   Asshur shall not save us; we will not ride upon horses: neither will we say any more to the work of our hands, Ye are our gods: for in thee the fatherless findeth mercy.

When god spiritually speaks of Assyria, or Asshur, or Eber, not only is he speaking of the false gods that came out of there, but specifically speaking about the land of trade.  Merchandise.  This is what man has mainly worshiped, material things made with man's hands.  It becomes another god.  The love of mammon that has survived throughout time, through trading and buying and getting rich of her.

Asshur shall not save us, .....merchandise, trade, money, wealth shall not save us.  It all started there in Ninevah Assyria.  Trade.

Sumer and Akkad existed prior to Babylon and Assyria, and thus before the flood. The cuneiform tablets that refer to Sargon I are the Assyrian tablets discovered by British exployers in the late 1800's like Henry Layard.

This Sargon of the tablets is not the Sargon of Isaiah 20:1, so please don't make that mistake. Sar means king, so of course there were others later after Sargon I using that kind of title. But Sargon I (the first), was of the era of 3800 B.C. which the tablets refer back to the time of Sumer and Akkad, not Assyria.

 

[Salty]

14 hours ago, Sister said:

Salty

God labels Jerusalem as Sodom and Egypt, not Babylon but of Babylon.

 Revelation 11:8   And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

A thought just came to mind.  Was not Jerusalem also in Babylon?  A part of that "great city" also? 

Babylon's children despise truth, prefer material things, ...don't like to give up worldly things for the Lord.  Babylon's children killed the Lord, and the Hub of Babylon spiritually was there in Jerusalem, where Satan was at that time. 

Which mother were Jerusalem serving at that time.?  Babylon's mother or mother Zion?

 Matthew 12:40   For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Jesus was not dead for 3 days and 3 nights, only dead for 2 nights and rose the third day, but he was captured and put in the hands of Babylon, then killed.  All happened in the heart of the earth, and the earth's heart is in Babylon.

Egypt were the oppressors.  To spiritually be called Egypt, you have to oppress others. 

Sodom were filthy,...If you read the book of Jasher, it speaks of Sodom in more detail. They  had their celebrations every year, and the men would take their wives and daughters, into town and let any man take them, whilst they turned a blind eye.   Also any one who would sojourn through their land, they would rob and kill.  They were false accusers, and their kings gave no justice to the innocents.  They stripped a man of everything he had. 

I see Babylon as being both of these, and Jerusalem became a part of that Great City.

God is labeling end time Jerusalem as the Babylon harlot of Rev.17 & 18. The fact that Rev.11:8 is using other pagan area names like Sodom and Egypt are hints to this fact.

Ezekiel 16 is still one of the keys of sorting this out, of why God would refer to Jerusalem spiritually as a Babylon harlot for the end of days.

The orthodox Jews in Jerusalem today have the materials ready to build another temple, and why would they do that? To start up the old covenant worship again, which included animal sacrifices, ritual priesthood, etc. Remember, they do not believe on Jesus of Nazareth as The Messiah. They believe they are still under the old covenant.

That is the same kind of thinking that got Israel into trouble in OT times when it thought to follow the gods of the nations around them. Those are being tricked away from the New Covenant Jesus Christ by the crept in unawares among them, which includes an element of Satan's servants (Canaanites) and is why Jesus would refer to the scribes and Pharisees of His day as the "synagogue of Satan".

But we in Christ Jesus are to know better than what the orthodox Jews in Jerusalem are being prepared to do. Many of them will fall away to believe on the coming pseudo-Christ, thinking he is The Messiah. We in Christ Jesus are to know better than to do that in our near future.

 

[Sister]

On 14/11/2016 at 11:49 PM, Salty said:

God is labeling end time Jerusalem as the Babylon harlot of Rev.17 & 18. The fact that Rev.11:8 is using other pagan area names like Sodom and Egypt are hints to this fact.

Ezekiel 16 is still one of the keys of sorting this out, of why God would refer to Jerusalem spiritually as a Babylon harlot for the end of days.

The orthodox Jews in Jerusalem today have the materials ready to build another temple, and why would they do that? To start up the old covenant worship again, which included animal sacrifices, ritual priesthood, etc. Remember, they do not believe on Jesus of Nazareth as The Messiah. They believe they are still under the old covenant.

That is the same kind of thinking that got Israel into trouble in OT times when it thought to follow the gods of the nations around them. Those are being tricked away from the New Covenant Jesus Christ by the crept in unawares among them, which includes an element of Satan's servants (Canaanites) and is why Jesus would refer to the scribes and Pharisees of His day as the "synagogue of Satan".

But we in Christ Jesus are to know better than what the orthodox Jews in Jerusalem are being prepared to do. Many of them will fall away to believe on the coming pseudo-Christ, thinking he is The Messiah. We in Christ Jesus are to know better than to do that in our near future.

 

Salty

I don't see God specifically labeling Jerusalem as Babylon.  You could say he may of "labelled" them as Sodom and Egypt, but not Babylon. God also refers to the world spiritually as "Egypt" also, so Egypt is a general metaphor in some scriptures describing the world (the oppressors, the uncircumsized of heart)

Saying that Jerusalem is Babylon is only an interpretation, it's not solid concrete, but from you connecting your dots,...your interpretation.

Also, by me saying what I am saying in this thread, is only my interpretation also,...I'm connecting my dots!

Our dots are not joining together, in some places they are, but then they go into different directions.

I thought that I would just state for the record that I originally did not see Rev Chapter 18 as clearly as I see now.  Whether I am right or wrong in my interpretation, I am just stating for the record. 

In saying that, it's got us all who care looking into those scriptures and having a deep think about it.  Mmm.  Go over things again with fresh eyes, not stale ones.

 Revelation 18:9  And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,

If you see that passage as just Jerusalem being destroyed and all the kings of the earth are crying over her, and she alone is being punished,  then thats your perspective, my perspective is that it's speaking of all the harlots children,..all the nations of the world, and that whole world is Babylon, her system, her children, who are crying not over Jerusalem, but over their own lands.

 Revelation 18:17   For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,

  Revelation 18:18   And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!

The nations are going to despise Jerusalem, surround her and attack her, why would they say that?  Because they are not crying over Jerusalem.  This great city is not Jerusalem, but Babylon, the world.

  Revelation 18:19   And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

Jerusalem does not supply the whole world with goods.  Merchants and traders are everywhere.

Anyway, you are welcome to reply but I don't want to sound like a scratchy record anymore!

[Salty]

4 hours ago, Sister said:

Salty

I don't see God specifically labeling Jerusalem as Babylon.  You could say he may of "labelled" them as Sodom and Egypt, but not Babylon. God also refers to the world spiritually as "Egypt" also, so Egypt is a general metaphor in some scriptures describing the world (the oppressors, the uncircumsized of heart)

Saying that Jerusalem is Babylon is only an interpretation, it's not solid concrete, but from you connecting your dots,...your interpretation.

Also, by me saying what I am saying in this thread, is only my interpretation also,...I'm connecting my dots!

Our dots are not joining together, in some places they are, but then they go into different directions.

I thought that I would just state for the record that I originally did not see Rev Chapter 18 as clearly as I see now.  Whether I am right or wrong in my interpretation, I am just stating for the record. 

In saying that, it's got us all who care looking into those scriptures and having a deep think about it.  Mmm.  Go over things again with fresh eyes, not stale ones.

 Revelation 18:9  And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,

If you see that passage as just Jerusalem being destroyed and all the kings of the earth are crying over her, and she alone is being punished,  then thats your perspective, my perspective is that it's speaking of all the harlots children,..all the nations of the world, and that whole world is Babylon, her system, her children, who are crying not over Jerusalem, but over their own lands.

 Revelation 18:17   For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,

  Revelation 18:18   And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!

The nations are going to despise Jerusalem, surround her and attack her, why would they say that?  Because they are not crying over Jerusalem.  This great city is not Jerusalem, but Babylon, the world.

  Revelation 18:19   And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

Jerusalem does not supply the whole world with goods.  Merchants and traders are everywhere.

Anyway, you are welcome to reply but I don't want to sound like a scratchy record anymore!

I'm simply not going to argue with you about it. You make all these counter-affirmations in your post, but it does not fit what the Scriptures are pointing to. I directed you to Ezekiel 16 where God calls Jerusalem a "harlot" for going a whoring with the pagan nations, including Babylon, and all you can come up with to counter is that the word Babylon is not mentioned in the Rev.11:8 verse?

Well in Rev.17 and Rev.18, the word Babylon is... being used, even the same phrase about her fall in Isaiah's day (Isaiah 21). And it certainly is not about geographical Babylon for the Revelation version.

Sliding away from this following verse to go into a spiritualistic tirade of suggesting the world is the Revelation Babylon won't do either, because Christ pointed to a "great city" with the Revelation label of the word Babylon:

Rev 17:18
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
KJV

 

What does the Book of Daniel tell us about the end? We were told of a false one coming to Jerusalem that will come to power using flatteries and peace. The Holy Covenant will be once again established with sacrifices also again established, with Rev.11:1-2 showing us the existence of another temple. Then that false one is to end sacrifices in Jerusalem and place the abomination that makes desolation, which is the image of the beast of Rev.13 that the coming Antichrist is going to require all to bow to in worship. The end time focus is not on the city of New York, nor Brussels, nor Rome. It is on Jerusalem, the city of Daniel's people which the Book of Daniel was speaking about.

The simple truth of this is NOT going to be overturned by orthodox Jewry who would be very interested in hiding the fact that these latter day prophecies are involving the city of Jerusalem. If we are still living when the Antichrist shows up in Jerusalem, then you might agree with where the Scriptures are pointing to like I've said.