QUESTIONS concerning 1Cor.15 & 1Thes.4

[n2thelight]

10 hours ago, missmuffet said:

Yes, it does answer your question.

Which part?

[n2thelight]

11 hours ago, missmuffet said:

Yes, it does answer your question.

Which part?

 

Ive posted this chart before,no one could refute it,would love for you to try...

 

By comparing point by point in the following two passages, we can observe that both of the following two chapters are referring to the same event. Observe the perfect parallels below.

1 Thessalonians 4	1 Corinthians 15
4:16 - the Lord Himself shall come	15:23 - are Christ’s at His coming
4:14 - sleep	15:51 - sleep
4:16 - shout, voice, trump	15:52 - the trumpet shall sound
4:16 - dead in Christ shall rise first	15:52 - dead shall be raised

 

Now compare Matthew 24 with the above events using 1 Thessalonians since some erroneously teach that Matthew 24 is talking about the glorious second coming of Jesus, which they teach is a different event to the above chapters which they say refers to a secret rapture.

1 Thessalonians 4 and 5	Matthew 24
4:15 - coming (Parousia)	24:27 - coming (Parousia)
4:17 - clouds	24:30 - clouds
4:16 - shout, voice trump	24:31 - sound of a trumpet
4:17 - caught up together	24:31 - gather together
5:1 - times and seasons	24:36 - day or hour
5:2 - a thief	24:43 - a thief
5:3 - sudden destruction	24:39 - took them all away
5:6 - watch	24:42 - watch

 

As you can see, not only are these the same event and so parallel each other perfectly but are even in the same order. There are not two different aspects of the return of Jesus. There is only one second coming and the theory of a secret rapture with a second chance is just another deception of the enemy.

Matthew 24	1 Thessalonians 4	1 Corinthians 15
Jesus coming	Jesus coming	At His coming
Trumpet	Trumpet	Last trump
Angels gather saints	Dead saints raised	Dead saints raised
Angels gather saints	Living saints caught up	Living saints changed
Coming in the clouds	Coming in the clouds	Not mentioned

 

Why is the Second Coming important?

Belief in the return of Christ is important because it is exactly and clearly what the Word of God teaches. To doubt the reality of the second coming of Christ is to doubt the reliability and validity of God’s Word. Also, the return of Christ is important because He Himself promised it. If Jesus is wrong about His return, then how can we trust anything else that Jesus taught? The return of Christ is our hope and confidence that God is in control of all things and is faithful to His Word and His promises. “Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.” Titus 2:13.

 

http://www.the-second-coming.org/

[missmuffet]

10 minutes ago, n2thelight said:

Which part?

 

Ive posted this chart before,no one could refute it,would love for you to try...

 

By comparing point by point in the following two passages, we can observe that both of the following two chapters are referring to the same event. Observe the perfect parallels below.

1 Thessalonians 4	1 Corinthians 15
4:16 - the Lord Himself shall come	15:23 - are Christ’s at His coming
4:14 - sleep	15:51 - sleep
4:16 - shout, voice, trump	15:52 - the trumpet shall sound
4:16 - dead in Christ shall rise first	15:52 - dead shall be raised

 

Now compare Matthew 24 with the above events using 1 Thessalonians since some erroneously teach that Matthew 24 is talking about the glorious second coming of Jesus, which they teach is a different event to the above chapters which they say refers to a secret rapture.

1 Thessalonians 4 and 5	Matthew 24
4:15 - coming (Parousia)	24:27 - coming (Parousia)
4:17 - clouds	24:30 - clouds
4:16 - shout, voice trump	24:31 - sound of a trumpet
4:17 - caught up together	24:31 - gather together
5:1 - times and seasons	24:36 - day or hour
5:2 - a thief	24:43 - a thief
5:3 - sudden destruction	24:39 - took them all away
5:6 - watch	24:42 - watch

 

As you can see, not only are these the same event and so parallel each other perfectly but are even in the same order. There are not two different aspects of the return of Jesus. There is only one second coming and the theory of a secret rapture with a second chance is just another deception of the enemy.

Matthew 24	1 Thessalonians 4	1 Corinthians 15
Jesus coming	Jesus coming	At His coming
Trumpet	Trumpet	Last trump
Angels gather saints	Dead saints raised	Dead saints raised
Angels gather saints	Living saints caught up	Living saints changed
Coming in the clouds	Coming in the clouds	Not mentioned

 

Why is the Second Coming important?

Belief in the return of Christ is important because it is exactly and clearly what the Word of God teaches. To doubt the reality of the second coming of Christ is to doubt the reliability and validity of God’s Word. Also, the return of Christ is important because He Himself promised it. If Jesus is wrong about His return, then how can we trust anything else that Jesus taught? The return of Christ is our hope and confidence that God is in control of all things and is faithful to His Word and His promises. “Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.” Titus 2:13.

 

http://www.the-second-coming.org/

I am not going to refute anything. You believe what you believe. I posted what I believe.

[n2thelight]

5 hours ago, missmuffet said:

I am not going to refute anything. You believe what you believe. I posted what I believe.

All good

[WailingWall]

9 hours ago, n2thelight said:

Which part?

 

Ive posted this chart before,no one could refute it,would love for you to try...

 

By comparing point by point in the following two passages, we can observe that both of the following two chapters are referring to the same event. Observe the perfect parallels below.

1 Thessalonians 4	1 Corinthians 15
4:16 - the Lord Himself shall come	15:23 - are Christ’s at His coming
4:14 - sleep	15:51 - sleep
4:16 - shout, voice, trump	15:52 - the trumpet shall sound
4:16 - dead in Christ shall rise first	15:52 - dead shall be raised

 

Now compare Matthew 24 with the above events using 1 Thessalonians since some erroneously teach that Matthew 24 is talking about the glorious second coming of Jesus, which they teach is a different event to the above chapters which they say refers to a secret rapture.

1 Thessalonians 4 and 5	Matthew 24
4:15 - coming (Parousia)	24:27 - coming (Parousia)
4:17 - clouds	24:30 - clouds
4:16 - shout, voice trump	24:31 - sound of a trumpet
4:17 - caught up together	24:31 - gather together
5:1 - times and seasons	24:36 - day or hour
5:2 - a thief	24:43 - a thief
5:3 - sudden destruction	24:39 - took them all away
5:6 - watch	24:42 - watch

 

As you can see, not only are these the same event and so parallel each other perfectly but are even in the same order. There are not two different aspects of the return of Jesus. There is only one second coming and the theory of a secret rapture with a second chance is just another deception of the enemy.

Matthew 24	1 Thessalonians 4	1 Corinthians 15
Jesus coming	Jesus coming	At His coming
Trumpet	Trumpet	Last trump
Angels gather saints	Dead saints raised	Dead saints raised
Angels gather saints	Living saints caught up	Living saints changed
Coming in the clouds	Coming in the clouds	Not mentioned

 

Why is the Second Coming important?

Belief in the return of Christ is important because it is exactly and clearly what the Word of God teaches. To doubt the reality of the second coming of Christ is to doubt the reliability and validity of God’s Word. Also, the return of Christ is important because He Himself promised it. If Jesus is wrong about His return, then how can we trust anything else that Jesus taught? The return of Christ is our hope and confidence that God is in control of all things and is faithful to His Word and His promises. “Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.” Titus 2:13.

 

http://www.the-second-coming.org/

Simply wonderful and as you say unrefutable.

[WailingWall]

9 hours ago, missmuffet said:

I am not going to refute anything. You believe what you believe. I posted what I believe.

I dont understand that kinda answer. You see what the scriptures say. Quite opposite of what you say. And yet your gonna go on believing in the "rapture". A great and eye opening {for some} post n2TheLight.

[Marcus O'Reillius]

On 12/5/2016 at 11:02 AM, WailingWall said:

Nope. Its all about the sun, moon,stars
Matthew 24:29-31 The "Day of the Lord" is after the great tribulation pweriod
Joel 2:30 Sun and moon stuff BEFORE the Day of the Lord Joel 2:32  And look where we are a goin! Jerusalem. Mt.Zion. Not heaven

Nope?

I agree that the "Day of the Lord" is after the Great Tribulation IAW Jesus' prophecy in the Olivet Discourse.  
(The Great Tribulation is not a "period" like the one 'seven' is a period of time.)
I agree that the "sun/moon/star" event happens before the Day of the Lord IAW Joel 2:30.

However, we are not "going" to Jerusalem when Jesus assaults Jerusalem on the Day of the Lord's Wrath against the unrepentant Jews in Jerusalem.
That is a conclusion entirely of your own making.

What I am saying is that AFTER the sun/moon/star event that 1. We are gathered IAW Mt 24:31 and 2. We appear in Heaven IAW Rev 7:9-17.
THUS: Both events happen AFTER the sun/moon/star event and ON the Day of the Lord.

The Wrath of God happens AFTER the Harvest of Rev 14:14-16 with the first Trumpet of Rev 8 as detailed in Rev 14:17-20.
That's where Joel 2:32 comes into play as describing that attack.
If you want to see where Jesus goes after the 144,000 break into the city, like a thief, read Ezekiel 9.

(P.S. IAW is military lingo for "in accordance with")

[WailingWall]

3 hours ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

I agree that the "Day of the Lord" is after the Great Tribulation IAW Jesus' prophecy in the Olivet Discourse.  
(The Great Tribulation is not a "period" like the one 'seven' is a period of time.)
I agree that the "sun/moon/star" event happens before the Day of the Lord IAW Joel 2:30.

However, we are not "going" to Jerusalem when Jesus assaults Jerusalem on the Day of the Lord's Wrath against the unrepentant Jews in Jerusalem.
That is a conclusion entirely of your own making.

 

My own makin? Not so MO.

JEREMIAH 3 [11] And the LORD said unto me, THE BACKSLIDING ISRAEL hath justified herself more than treacherous Judah.[12] Go and proclaim these words toward the north, and say, Return, thou backsliding Israel, saith the LORD; and I will not cause mine anger to fall upon you: for I am merciful, saith the LORD, and I will not keep anger for ever.[13] Only acknowledge thine iniquity, that thou hast transgressed against the LORD thy God, and hast scattered thy ways to the strangers under every green tree, and ye have not obeyed my voice, saith the LORD.[14] TURN, O BACKSLIDING CHILDREN, SAITH THE LORD; FOR I AM MARRIED UNTO YOU: AND I WILL TAKE YOU ONE OF A CITY, AND TWO OF A FAMILY, AND I WILL BRING YOU TO ZION:

I am married to you {the bride of Christ}. Goin to Jerusalem, Zion, His Holy Mountain {in the twinkling of an eye}. Please dont try and tell me theres 2 brides

[Marcus O'Reillius]

You, "Wailing Wall" are substituting the Church for Israel in Jeremiah.

There is only one Bride at the wedding supper of the Lamb; it will be comprised of both Jew and Gentile.
But you confuse the covenant relationship which God entered into with Israel, the unbelieving, unrepentant, stiff-necked, Hebrew nation, which is why, in a progressive dispensational model, that there even is a Millennium.

It's so that He can bring His Sheep back to the fold - with an iron rod.

[Salty]

On 12/14/2016 at 11:32 AM, Marcus O'Reillius said:

However, we are not "going" to Jerusalem when Jesus assaults Jerusalem on the Day of the Lord's Wrath against the unrepentant Jews in Jerusalem.

That is a conclusion entirely of your own making.

What I am saying is that AFTER the sun/moon/star event that 1. We are gathered IAW Mt 24:31 and 2. We appear in Heaven IAW Rev 7:9-17.
THUS: Both events happen AFTER the sun/moon/star event and ON the Day of the Lord.

The Wrath of God happens AFTER the Harvest of Rev 14:14-16 with the first Trumpet of Rev 8 as detailed in Rev 14:17-20.
That's where Joel 2:32 comes into play as describing that attack.
If you want to see where Jesus goes after the 144,000 break into the city, like a thief, read Ezekiel 9.

(P.S. IAW is military lingo for "in accordance with")

Excuse me for butting in, but...

Those of us still alive on earth when Jesus comes to gather the Church will be changed at the twinkling of an eye to the body of incorruption he taught in 1 Cor.15. That type of body represents the resurrection body, which he also called the "image of the heavenly".

It's all about perspective regarding the two dimensions written of in God's Word, this earthly one and the heavenly one. When that "image of the heavenly" body manifests on earth, in what dimension is it in? just this earthly dimension only? When angels manifested as men on earth, were they in flesh bodies, or was that their heavenly image revealed on earth?

In 1 Cor.15 Apostle Paul said that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. He said that in contrast to the resurrection body we will inherit not being a flesh type body (though it will serve us like our flesh body does). This is why he called it the "image of the heavenly" also in 1 Cor.15 because that's exactly what it is. A type body for heaven.

So when Jesus comes and we alive are 'changed', we are changed to that "image of the heavenly". And it does not matter 'where' we literally are immediately after that change, whether on the earth or in Heaven that is a body of the heavenly order, and it is directly related to the idea of being "caught up" to Jesus similar to how Paul showed in 2 Cor.12 with the one caught up to Paradise. The difference when Jesus comes descending to earth is that He is not coming to take us to Heaven, because when we are 'changed' at a moment on the "last trump" our bodies will be in the heavenly fleeing to Him in the clouds. And that's how we go with Him to Jerusalem on that day like Zechariah 14 reveals.