QUESTIONS concerning 1Cor.15 & 1Thes.4

[Rare Bird]

Edited November 19, 2016 by Rare Bird

[Rare Bird]

2 hours ago, WailingWall said:

Jesus brings them to His Holy Mountain. The kingdom rest. Yes, the “others” {John 10v16} {Isaiah 56v8} are the gentiles. So when the LAST TRUMPET {1Cor.15} sounds we meet the Lord in the air and Jesus “brings” us to His holy mountain in Jerusalem for the kingdom rest. Not off to heaven as the Rapturist claim.

 

So where does this leave John 14:2 "In my Father's house are many mansions...I go to prepare a place for you." I mean, why bother building mansions if you are going to His holy mountain? (i.e., 1 Thess 4:15-18, Isaiah 26:19-21, Zeph 2:3, Psalm 27:5, Psalm 50:5)

Also, based on this path of reasoning, where are Elijah and Enoch currently residing? They were "raptured/caught away to be with the Lord before death" were they not? And is Jesus residing at the right hand of the Father (who art in heaven), or not? [Hebrews 10:12]? 

 

Edited November 19, 2016 by Rare Bird

[coheir]

19 hours ago, OneLight said:

I have pondered this for many years.  If Jesus is everywhere, will we also be everywhere?  When He is on the earth, we will be there with Him.  If in His Fathers Kingdom, we will be there also. 

MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR: AND SO SHALL WE EVER BE WITH THE LORD

When Jesus is every where at the same time one is very close to mysticism

[WailingWall]

29 minutes ago, Rare Bird said:

So where does this leave John 14:2 "In my Father's house are many mansions...I go to prepare a place for you." I mean, why bother building mansions if you are going to His holy mountain? (i.e., 1 Thess 4:15-18, Isaiah 26:19-21, Zeph 2:3, Psalm 27:5, Psalm 50:5)

JOHN 14 [1] Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. [2] In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. [3] And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

JOHN 7  [33] Then said Jesus unto them, Yet a little while am I with you, and then I go unto him that sent me.[34] Ye shall seek me, and shall not find me: and WHERE I AM, THITHER YE CANNOT COME.

We are not allowed to go to heaven but Jesus said He would come again and that where He is we will be there also

REVELATION 21 [1] And I saw a NEW HEAVEN AND A NEW EARTH: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.[2]And I John saw the holy city, NEW JERUSALEM, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.[3]And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, BEHOLD, THE TABERNACLE OF GOD IS WITH MEN, AND HE WILL DWELL WITH THEM, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.[4]And God shall WIPE AWAY ALL TEARS from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.[5]And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

The many mansions? Its the new Jerusalem that is brought to this earth

ZECH. 8 [1] Again the word of the Lord of hosts came to me, saying, [2] Thus saith the Lord of hosts; I was jealous for Zion with great jealousy, and I was jealous for her with great fury. [3] THUS SAITH THE LORD; I AM RETURNED UNTO ZION, AND WILL DWELL IN THE MIDST OF JERUSALEM: and Jerusalem shall be called a city of truth; and the mountain of the Lord of hosts the holy mountain. [4] Thus saith the Lord of hosts; There shall yet old men and old women dwell in the streets of Jerusalem, and every man with his staff in his hand for very age. [5] And the streets of the city shall be full of boys and girls playing in the streets thereof. [6] Thus saith the Lord of hosts; If it be marvellous in the eyes of the remnant of this people in these days, should it also be marvellous in mine eyes? saith the Lord of hosts. [7] Thus saith the Lord of hosts; Behold, I WILL SAVE MY PEOPLE FROM THE EAST COUNTRY, AND FROM THE WEST COUNTRY; [8] AND I WILL BRING THEM, AND THEY SHALL DWELL IN THE MIDST OF JERUSALEM: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God, in truth and in righteousness.

The new Jerusalem {many mansions} will be in Zion, in the midst of old Jerusalem. Its there He will “bring” us in the twinkling of an eye. Not to heaven as the Rapturist claim

[Rare Bird]

Just now, WailingWall said:

The new Jerusalem {many mansions} will be in Zion, in the midst of old Jerusalem. Its there He will “bring” us in the twinkling of an eye. Not to heaven as the Rapturist claim

And, "We are not allowed to go to heaven?" Wha...???! Interesting perspective. Wow. I guess the Holy Spirit has misled the majority of Bible scholars and church leaders for the last two thousandish years, and I can just throw away the last 20+ years I've invested in studying the Bible. 

Also, could I get your perspective on where you believe Enoch and Elijah are currently residing, as I had posed in my former post? I think you forgot to address that. Additionally, if Elijah and Moses were present with Jesus during the transfiguration, and then disappeared while Jesus remained, where did they go? Are they allowed to go to heaven, but nobody else? 

Edited November 19, 2016 by Rare Bird

[WailingWall]

1 hour ago, Rare Bird said:

And, "We are not allowed to go to heaven?" Wha...???! Interesting perspective. Wow. I guess the Holy Spirit has misled the majority of Bible scholars and church leaders for the last two thousandish years,

There will be no strength in numbers when Christ returns

LUKE 12 [31] But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you.[32] FEAR NOT, LITTLE FLOCK; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

only a little flock will enter the kingdom {saved}

MATT.7  [13] Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction,and many there be which go in thereat:[14] Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life,and FEW THERE BE THAT FIND IT.

few there be that find it

MATT.7  [21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.[22] MANY WILL SAY to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?[23] And then will I profess unto them, I NEVER KNEW YOU: DEPART FROM ME, YE THAT WORK INIQUITY.

In footnotes of the KJB, iniquity equals lawlessness.  You can find this in 2 THES. 2 verse 7. And the many have come in the name of JESUS saying we need not keep GODS 10 commandments.

LUKE 13  [23] Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,[24] Strive to enter in at the strait gate: FOR MANY, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.[25] When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:[26] Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.[27] But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

Jesus himself tells us that “the many” will not enter the Kingdom. And he explains why. They are workers of iniquity. They do not keep Gods law. HIS 10 commandments.

ISAIAH 24  [3] The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the LORD hath spoken this word.[4] The earth mourneth and fadeth away, the world languisheth and fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish.[5] The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, BROKEN THE EVERLASTING COVENANT.[6] Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, AND FEW MEN LEFT.

Well, here we are. The BOTTOM LINE. The DAY OF THE LORD (when Christ returns) and again the Word says that only a few will be saved to the kingdom.

LEV.24 [8] EVERY SABBATH he shall set it in order before the LORD continually, being taken from the children of Israel by AN EVERLASTING COVENANT.

Is this the everlasting covenant that they broke?

JEREMIAH 16 [19] O Lord, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, THE GENTILES shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.

In Jeremiah we find what will happen to most gentiles when Jesus returns.

[WailingWall]

2 hours ago, Rare Bird said:

And, "We are not allowed to go to heaven?" Wha...???! Interesting perspective. Wow. I guess the Holy Spirit has misled the majority of Bible scholars and church leaders for the last two thousandish years, and I can just throw away the last 20+ years I've invested in studying the Bible. 

Also, could I get your perspective on where you believe Enoch and Elijah are currently residing, as I had posed in my former post? I think you forgot to address that.

First of all its not my perspective. It is what Jesus said and i believe Him

JOHN 3 [12] If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? [13] And NO MAN HATH ASCENDED UP TO HEAVEN, BUT HE THAT CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Can any of you Rapturist tell me if scripture above will suddenly vanish from your bibles after you are raptured to heaven

JOHN 7  [33] Then said Jesus unto them, Yet a little while am I with you, and then I GO UNTO HIM THAT SENT ME.[34] Ye shall seek me, and shall not find me: and WHERE I AM, THITHER YE CANNOT COME.

I go to Him that sent me. To the Father. Heaven. Jesus said we cant go there

JOHN 12 [49] For I have not spoken of myself; but THE FATHER WHICH SENT ME, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

And i dont know where Elijah and Enoch went but i believe Jesus when He tells us they are not in heaven

[Rare Bird]

Yah but, specifically, where do you believe Elijah (and Enoch) is currently residing since they were "caught up" before the New Covenant? Because they way I read 2 Kings 2:1 below:

2 Kings 2:1 As the time drew near when the Lord was about to take Elijah to heaven in a wind storm, Elijah and Elisha were on their way from Gilgal.

Strongs H8064 שָׁמַיִם shâmayim, shaw-mah'-yim; dual of an unused singular שָׁמֶה shâmeh; from an unused root meaning to be lofty; the sky (as aloft; the dual perhaps alluding to the visible arch in which the clouds move, as well as to the higher ether where the celestial bodies revolve):—air, × astrologer, heaven(-s).

P.S. Awesome cut and paste btw, taken from http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/138383-so-what-about-fourth-commandment-63.html you made on March 13, 2013. Do you not have anything better to do with your time but contrive meaningless arguments that you have no intent whatsoever in edifying yourself or others with, but only to "drop scripture bombs" taken out of context in order to form a weak argument(s) that are heretical in nature?

Again. All I say is, "Wow". 

Edited November 19, 2016 by Rare Bird

[WailingWall]

My next question is about the LAST TRUMPET

1COR.15 [50] Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.[51] BEHOLD, I SHEW YOU A MYSTERY; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP: FOR THE TRUMPET SHALL SOUND, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.[53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.[54] So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

The above scripture points out that “we shall all be changed” as the LAST TRUMPET is blown.

MATTHEW 24 [29]IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: [30] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [31] And he shall send his angels with A GREAT SOUND OF A TRUMPET, and THEY SHALL GATHER TOGETHER HIS ELECT from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Here we find a trumpet being blown after the tribulation period. No matter how ya figure it, you cannot have the LAST TRUMPET being blown before the tribulation or at mid tribulation if a trumpet is being blown AFTER the tribulation. How do you Rapturist explain this.

 

[Ezra]

3 hours ago, WailingWall said:

The new Jerusalem {many mansions} will be in Zion, in the midst of old Jerusalem. Its there He will “bring” us in the twinkling of an eye. Not to heaven as the Rapturist claim

Since the New Jerusalem is a cubic city with the dimensions of a continent (1,500 square miles), it cannot possibly be IN THE MIDST of the old Jerusalem.  That would be absurd.

The Bible makes it very clear that the New Jerusalem is presently in Heaven, and will descend from Heaven and HOVER over the earth, not settle on the earth.  The earth will be peopled by nations which are saved, and which will walk in the light coming from the New Jerusalem.