BobRyan Posted May 5, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 711 Content Per Day: 0.28 Reputation: 266 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/12/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted May 5, 2017 5 hours ago, enoob57 said: The true error of reason here is the created impugning God for breaking His Law even though God claims He fulfilled it perfectly 'in obedience'.... God does not answer to the creation but the creation to God! The whole purpose of the law was to identify God when He came because only God could fulfill it... Matthew 3:13 (NKJV) [13] Then Jesus came from Galilee to John at the Jordan to be baptized by him. [14] And John tried to prevent Him, saying, “I need to be baptized by You, and are You coming to me?” [15] But Jesus answered and said to him, “Permit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he allowed Him. [16] When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. [17] And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” Matthew 5:17 (NKJV) Christ Fulfills the Law [17] “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. [18] “For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. [19] “Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. [20] “For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. Love, Steven Amen! "He who was sinless became sin for us that we might become the righteousness of God in Him" 2 Corinthians 5. Christ was sinless. And in the NT -- "Sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted May 5, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,164 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,887 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted May 5, 2017 6 minutes ago, BobRyan said: Christ was adamant in Matt 5 that He was not a law breaker. And His response to the law-breaking Jewish leaders of Mark 7:6-13 is that they had "condemned the innocent" Then the sabbath was not in effect which is what I've been saying here for 14 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted May 5, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 711 Content Per Day: 0.28 Reputation: 266 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/12/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted May 5, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, other one said: Then the sabbath was not in effect which is what I've been saying here for 14 years. No Jews accused Christ of breaking the Sabbath because they thought the Ten Commandments were ended or downsized ... nor did Christ make such a claim. Matt 5 Jesus said not to even think that His mission was to set aside God's Commandments. Christ said the Sabbath was "made for mankind" instead of saying "the Sabbath is deleted". Mark 7:6-13 Christ condemns the Jews for setting aside even one of the Ten Commandments. Hebrews 4 -- Paul says "there REMAINS therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God" - remains from what? from the time of David according to Heb 4. Isaiah 66:23 speaking of the New Earth for all eternity after the cross - "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship" Edited May 5, 2017 by BobRyan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted May 5, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,164 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,887 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted May 5, 2017 7 minutes ago, BobRyan said: No Jews accused Christ of breaking the Sabbath because they thought the Ten Commandments were ended or downsized ... nor did Christ make such a claim. Matt 5 Jesus said not to even think that His mission was to set aside God's Commandments. Christ said the Sabbath was "made for mankind" instead of saying "the Sabbath is deleted". Mark 7:6-13 Christ condemns the Jews for setting aside even one of the Ten Commandments. Hebrews 4 -- Paul says "there REMAINS therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God" - remains from what? from the time of David according to Heb 4. Isaiah 66:23 speaking of the New Earth for all eternity after the cross - "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship" The Jews didn't say the4th commandment was abrogated, I do. And Jesus did break the 4th commandment as it is written and that is why I say we do not follow it. If Jesus didn't who are you to tell me I have to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happinessity Posted May 7, 2017 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 260 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 188 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/02/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted May 7, 2017 On 11/22/2016 at 7:30 PM, Walter and Deborah said: Sabbaths , Judging one another about the Sabbath Colossians 2:16: Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted May 7, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 711 Content Per Day: 0.28 Reputation: 266 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/12/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted May 7, 2017 On 5/5/2017 at 4:56 PM, other one said: The Jews didn't say the4th commandment was abrogated, I do. [/quote] The Bible does not say it either. Jesus did not say it either. They accused Christ of breaking one of the TEN Commandments - before the cross. Almost every Christian group on the planet admits that the Ten Commandments existed before the cross as part of the moral law of God. Jesus said he had not sinned... they called him a sinner. Jesus did not say "I have not sinned because there is no Law any more" or any such thing. Nor did He say "I have not sinned because I just now downsized the Ten Commandments down to just NINE". On 5/5/2017 at 4:56 PM, other one said: And Jesus did break the 4th commandment as it is written They accused him of breaking it as they had piled up tradition on top of it - it was their own additions that he was breaking. Nothing in the Bible was broken. Even in the NT "Sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4 Even in the NT Jesus said not to claim that he was going around deleting commandments - Matthew 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted May 7, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,164 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,887 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted May 7, 2017 8 minutes ago, BobRyan said: The Bible does not say it either. Jesus did not say it either. They accused Christ of breaking one of the TEN Commandments - before the cross. Almost every Christian group on the planet admits that the Ten Commandments existed before the cross as part of the moral law of God. Jesus said he had not sinned... they called him a sinner. Jesus did not say "I have not sinned because there is no Law any more" or any such thing. Nor did He say "I have not sinned because I just now downsized the Ten Commandments down to just NINE". They accused him of breaking it as they had piled up tradition on top of it - it was their own additions that he was breaking. Nothing in the Bible was broken. Even in the NT "Sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4 Even in the NT Jesus said not to claim that he was going around deleting commandments - Matthew 5 If that was the situation why would he not straiten their thinking out instead of just leaving them and myself with the opinion we had/have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fridaywinds Posted May 7, 2017 Group: Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 80 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 93 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/04/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted May 7, 2017 When Jesus said he was Lord of the Sabbath I think he was saying that he was the God that gave the directive to honor the Sabbath. Man was made for the Sabbath. Not the Sabbath for man. If the Sabbath no longer counts shouldn't there be a scripture wherein Jesus said exactly that? Meanwhile, what could possibly be wrong in worship as a Christian for any Christian to choose one day where they are alone with the Lord God? Everyday we are with God because we are sealed with his holy spirit. Having a day of rest from our work schedule, everyday stresses and duties, so as to commit to a walk on that day with God in this garden that is our life is refreshing. We always go with God. While the world and its noise filters in. Having one day where the world is cast out and we are with God, with no worldly things, like computers, phone, horrible television that's programming is going more and more to the dark side. Even fasting on that day to give our body a day of rest from digesting the heavy foods we love 6 days a week. Honoring ourselves as that temple of the holiest of holy's. Why would that be wrong? How could that be wrong? Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy. Hallelujah! If you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted May 7, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,164 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,887 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted May 7, 2017 1 hour ago, Fridaywinds said: When Jesus said he was Lord of the Sabbath I think he was saying that he was the God that gave the directive to honor the Sabbath. Man was made for the Sabbath. Not the Sabbath for man. If the Sabbath no longer counts shouldn't there be a scripture wherein Jesus said exactly that? Meanwhile, what could possibly be wrong in worship as a Christian for any Christian to choose one day where they are alone with the Lord God? Everyday we are with God because we are sealed with his holy spirit. Having a day of rest from our work schedule, everyday stresses and duties, so as to commit to a walk on that day with God in this garden that is our life is refreshing. We always go with God. While the world and its noise filters in. Having one day where the world is cast out and we are with God, with no worldly things, like computers, phone, horrible television that's programming is going more and more to the dark side. Even fasting on that day to give our body a day of rest from digesting the heavy foods we love 6 days a week. Honoring ourselves as that temple of the holiest of holy's. Why would that be wrong? How could that be wrong? Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy. Hallelujah! If you can. No one here has said you shouldn't observe a or the Sabbath, just that you shouldn't tell others they must also to be right with God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riccardo Posted May 8, 2017 Group: Seventh Day Adventist Followers: 4 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 281 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 167 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/25/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted May 8, 2017 Brother Giller & others that are Quoting Col 2:17 Col 2:16 does say sabbath days plural but it also says in verse 17 which are shadows of things to come. Shadows is the key to understanding the passage but I also highlighted things to come . The seventh day sabbath was not a shadow, it is a creation institution & before sin, plus will be practiced on the new earth to come Isaiah 66:22-24 . Let me quote directly out of my study bible. Col 2:17 Old Testament laws, holidays & feasts pointed forward to Christ. Paul call them shadows of the reality to come Christ himself, when Christ came He dispelled the shadows. They were Pointers, pointing forward to Christ. The seventh Day Sabbath was not pointing forward, it is a creation institution & points back to a loving God & all His creation. Think of the logic in it for 4,000 plus years the sabbath is up held & also by our Lord Jesus who instituted it at creation. Then we have a period after Christ's death where certain groups along way away from papal power, around Galatia & Ireland still held to the sabbath one such person was St Patrick of Ireland who was English. This was the dark ages & the high jacking of the church by papal power. The papacy themselves say they changed the day. To my knowledge all the reformers pinpoint the papacy as the best in Daniel & Revelation & through my study I also have found little horn beast to be the Papacy. Now at this point we have the papacy being pinpointed as the beast, the papacy declaring they changed the day & most of Christendom following the beasts declaration. Rev 13:3 the hole world wondered after the beast. (Rev 18:4 come out of her my people) read Rev 17 its all the papacy. You may think i'v got of track but I wanted to point out what I believe to be key points that need to be considered about the papacy. Getting back to logic, 4,000 years the Sabbath was extremely important & with God imposing a death sentence on one after Moses inquired. Nowadays for the past few thousand years most of Christendom who them selves cannot settle on nor be in agreement on the reason why they don't hold to the Sabbath with some on this site saying Jesus broke the Sabbath law? How can one possibly take them serious. if Jesus broke the commandment we don't have a savior plus there is no Christian faith its all a hoax & Jesus was a lier. Mathew 5:18 For truly ,I say to you, until heaven & earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will pass from the law until all is accomplished. I'm sorry, I didn't read you whole article, when you start quoting passages out of context & if you don't know the difference between a shadow it gets to hard to answer all the issues that are raised up 4,000 years the sabbath is extremely important & with God imposing a death sentence on one, then seemingly to most modern Christians its not important, then for the rest of eternity on the earth mad new it's back to being extremely important again. Matthew 5:17 Not one jot nor Tittle shall pass from the law Luke 23:54-56 In this passage all His women followers that had been with him for years are preparing His Body these women loved Jesus dearly. Verse 54 starts out with the Sabbath drew near. 56 Then they returned & prepared spices & fragrant oils for their beloved Jesus. And rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment. ? In their labour of love they cease to complete the preparation of their beloved, what does that tell us about the Sabbath? Has Jesus forgotten to tell them the Sabbath has been done away with after all those years with him? Acts 13:42 So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath. IF the Sabbath was done away with why would the descipels not say "come to the Sunday service tomorrow" There is no where in the bible that supports Sunday worship. only man made inventions & as i said these cannot agree with each other. God bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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