BobRyan Posted September 6, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 711 Content Per Day: 0.28 Reputation: 266 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/12/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted September 6, 2017 On 9/2/2017 at 11:41 PM, BobRyan said: How about a NT text that says to read the OT and accept it as the Word of God - as Doctrine -- 2 Tim 3:16 "There REMAINS therefore a SABBATH rest for the people of God" Hebrews 4. - "Remains from when?" -- the answer in Hebrews 4 is that it remains as it was in Psalms 95. "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19 "the SABBATH was made for MANKIND" Mark 2:27 And the "solution" to the NT Christian church problems? "Moses is preached every SABBATH in the synagogues" Acts 15. So then what is Paul doing? Preaching the GOSPEL " every SABBATH in the Synagogue" to BOTH Jews and Gentiles - Acts 18:4 Hebrews 4 says "it remains" -- remains "from what"? - Hebrews 4 says it "REMAINS" from what it was in Psalms 95 in the days of David. What exactly do you think they were doing on Sabbath in the days of David - in Psalms 95.??? BTW - I assume from your response you have no answer for these - "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19 "the SABBATH was made for MANKIND" Mark 2:27 And the "solution" to the NT Christian church problems? "Moses is preached every SABBATH in the synagogues" Acts 15. Bible details matter 3 hours ago, Abdicate said: Bob, you enjoy strife too much for me, On the contrary - I love the Word of God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldCoot Posted October 3, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,192 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 429 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/29/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/12/1957 Share Posted October 3, 2017 (edited) For those that are going to be sticklers on Sabbath keeping, then make sure you are doing it right! 1) Tithes and offering were done during the 6 other days at the Temple. The temple is closed on Shabbat. Paul himself said all collections should be done on the 1st of the week. So no offering plate should be passed and no cash handled or checks written on Shabbat. There is to be absolutely no buying an selling on Shabbat also. No going out to brunch/lunch at a local restaurant after the service or anytime from sunset Friday evening to sunset Saturday evening. 2) Not allowed to kindle a fire. Yes, that includes driving your car to church, or anywhere for that matter. An internal combustion engine is multiple fires being ignited. That is a no-no if one is going to adhere to the commandment of Sabbath keeping. And electric car might be ok, but that kinda falls into a gray area. 3) while not specifically laid out on scripture, inference can be made from several passages that the max allowed distance a person could walk on the Sabbath was about 2000 cubits, roughly 1000 yards without violating Shabbat. Unless one lives on the same block as the church, even walking to service could violate that one. 4) there are High Sabbaths, Sabbaths that do not fall on the 7th day. And one, specifically Yom Kippur, has a commandment in the law to afflict one's self (that is generally held to be fasting) for the entire 24 hrs. I wonder.... did the Sabbath keeping folks fast last Shabbat from Friday evening to Saturday evening since Yom Kippur was on Sept 30th? Yom Kippur is one of God's required appointed times, a required rehearsal, and a Sabbath (irregardless of what day it falls on) to teach us of Messiah. If one is going to get all on top of "keeping God's commandments", then one needs to keep all of them, especially those that pertain to Shabbat. After all, scripture says that if one fails to keep even the least commandment, they are guilty of violating the whole Torah (Law). And what is the least commandment? It has been generally held to be the commandment that one not take the eggs from the nest along with the mother bird. Deut 22:6. I just chuckle when I see a bunch of cars in the SDA parking lot on Shabbat. Those folks are like a poor marksman that can't even hit the target. Great people, but just caught up in themselves sometimes regarding such things as the Shabbat. Straining at a gnat while swallowing a camel. The only allowance for violating any of these was for the preservation of life. Edited October 3, 2017 by OldCoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted October 3, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 711 Content Per Day: 0.28 Reputation: 266 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/12/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted October 3, 2017 8 hours ago, OldCoot said: For those that are going to be sticklers on Sabbath keeping, then make sure you are doing it right! The Bible says -- in Ex 20:11 and Genesis 2:1-3 that it was given to Adam and Eve - in Eden. No sin... no sacrifices. The Bible says - it is a day of rest Exodus 20:8-11 The Bible says - it is a day of "holy convocation" Lev 23:3 The bible says - no secular activity on that day -- Isaiah 58:13 The Bible says - from "Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23 for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth. The Bible says - the Bible is the "Word of God" Why insert that comment as if the "Bible is the Word of man"?? Your argument is "With the text" 8 hours ago, OldCoot said: 1) Tithes and offering were done during the 6 other days at the Temple. The temple is closed on Shabbat. The Synagogues were all opened on the Sabbath. The Temple was never closed on the Sabbath in the actual Bible - you quote nothing from the Bible for your "temple is closed on Sabbath" -- so I assume you are asking us to abide by the "making stuff up" rule of the Jews after the Bible was written. Is that correct? 8 hours ago, OldCoot said: Paul himself said all collections should be done on the 1st of the week. Paul did not say that any kind of corporate/group collection was to be done on the first day of the week. He said "on the first day of the week let each one lay aside - put in store -- by himself" ... alone... at home.. Paul never stated that this was the Lord's Day or that it was a gathering of any kind. The whole reason we have this thread is to argue against the "making stuff up" model. 8 hours ago, OldCoot said: 2) Not allowed to kindle a fire. Yes, that includes driving your car to church, or anywhere for that matter. An internal combustion engine is multiple fires being ignited. That is a no-no if one is going to adhere to the commandment of Sabbath keeping. And electric car might be ok, but that kinda falls into a gray area. Fires burned in the Temple on Sabbath and in the homes on Sabbath during the winter... you are "reaching" via extreme inference. 8 hours ago, OldCoot said: 3) while not specifically laid out on scripture, inference can be made from several passages that the max allowed distance a person could walk on the Sabbath was about 2000 cubits, roughly 1000 yards without violating Shabbat. Unless one lives on the same block as the church, even walking to service could violate that one. "While not specifically mentioned in scripture" seems to be the "Theme" of your post points. Your quotes a primarily from the book "making stuff up" 8 hours ago, OldCoot said: 4) there are High Sabbaths, Sabbaths that do not fall on the 7th day. And one, specifically Yom Kippur, has a commandment in the law to afflict one's self (that is generally held to be fasting) for the entire 24 hrs. True -- there were annual feasts/Sabbaths/Observances that required both animal sacrifice and Jewish priest to observe and if you delete both the Jewish priesthood and the animal sacrifice - they have no liturgy at all for observance. That is what happens in HEbrews 7 - no more priests... and in Hebrews 10:4-12 no more animal sacrifices. More focus on "Bible detail" please. Less focus on "making stuff up" please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldCoot Posted October 3, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,192 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 429 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/29/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/12/1957 Share Posted October 3, 2017 (edited) I believe you need to actually do your research. I didn't write a college level dissertation on the topic with footnotes and dozens of scripture references because most of what I stated is common knowledge with tons of more detailed information available to those who choose to find out for themselves. I didn't feel the need to reinvent the wheel. You choose not to accept it, not my problem. I usually don't waste a lot of time on those that try to push a Shabbat thing. If one chooses to adhere to the practice, great. If not, I don't worry about it either. But when someone wishes to make it is standard for everyone else, it usually evidences a legalistic mindset or worse, pride that they are somehow more superior to those who don't. Paul, a premier Pharisee trained in one of the most venerated schools of Jewish theology, Gamliel, had choice words for those that fit into those camps. And that is really what it comes down to. A far bigger problem than the Shabbat itself. Edited October 3, 2017 by OldCoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted October 4, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 711 Content Per Day: 0.28 Reputation: 266 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/12/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted October 4, 2017 (edited) On 10/3/2017 at 9:34 AM, OldCoot said: I believe you need to actually do your research. Bible study? gladly. What Bible detail would you like in more depth?? Quote I didn't write a college level dissertation on the topic with footnotes and dozens of scripture references because most of what I stated is common knowledge with tons of more detailed information available to those who choose to find out for themselves. I didn't feel the need to reinvent the wheel. You choose not to accept it, not my problem. Lack of referenceable substance in that statement can hardly be overstated. Quote I usually don't waste a lot of time on those that try to push a Shabbat How odd then that you are posing on this subject thread. Quote Paul, a premier Pharisee trained in one of the most venerated schools of Jewish theology, Gamliel, had choice words for those that fit into those camps. And that is really what it comes down to. A far bigger problem than the Shabbat itself. Paul never argues against the Ten Commandments - not even the Bible Sabbath. "do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31 TEN Commandments (all TEN) included in the MORAL Law of God written on the heart under the NEW Covenant of Hebrews 8:6-10... and we all know it. (Or at least the vast majority of even pro-Sunday scholars admit that obvious Bible detail) Edited October 4, 2017 by BobRyan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted October 4, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 711 Content Per Day: 0.28 Reputation: 266 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/12/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted October 4, 2017 Now having said that - everyone does have free will and can ignore anything they wish in the Bible that appears to support God's Commandments, God's Ten Commandments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted October 4, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 597 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,117 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,851 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted October 4, 2017 Well, I've never met a person who observes the Sabbath per old testament scripture... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WailingWall Posted September 29, 2018 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 458 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 329 Days Won: 1 Joined: 08/25/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted September 29, 2018 On 11/23/2016 at 8:12 AM, shiloh357 said: It's a matter of conscience. If someone chooses to keep the Sabbath, they are free to do so, just others are free not to do so. It has no bearing on their commitment to Christ or their salvation. Luke 6:46 (KJV) 46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 2 hours ago, WailingWall said: Luke 6:46 (KJV) 46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? If you think that observing the sabbath day is a salvation issue, you are a false teacher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldCoot Posted September 29, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,192 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 429 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/29/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/12/1957 Share Posted September 29, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, WailingWall said: Luke 6:46 (KJV) 46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Micah 6:8 (NKJV) He has shown you, O man, what is good; And what does the Lord require of you But to do justly, To love mercy, And to walk humbly with your God? 1 John 3:22-23 (NKJV) And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. Matthew 22:36-40 (NKJV) “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?” 37 Jesus said to him, “ ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets. Now those commandments are a boat load. But there is always someone who desires to add more to them. Edited September 29, 2018 by OldCoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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