RealPresence Posted December 2, 2016 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 3 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 625 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 503 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/28/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted December 2, 2016 1 minute ago, shiloh357 said: Judaism isn't about worshiping the Father. Judaism is about staying Jewish and preserving Jewish identity. Judaism isn't the religion of the OT. Wrong: The start of Judaism as a religion was at Mount Sinai at the great revelation (1400 BCE). The start of Judaism as a religion was when Hashem (God) gave the ten commandments to the Jewish nation at Mount Sinai. From then on for forty years the Jewish people wandered in the Sinai desserts and Moses taught them the Torah, as he heard it from Hashem (God).http://www.orthodox-jews.com/origin-of-judaism.html#ixzz4RhBr8gro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 7 minutes ago, RealPresence said: Wrong: The start of Judaism as a religion was at Mount Sinai at the great revelation (1400 BCE). The start of Judaism as a religion was when Hashem (God) gave the ten commandments to the Jewish nation at Mount Sinai. From then on for forty years the Jewish people wandered in the Sinai desserts and Moses taught them the Torah, as he heard it from Hashem (God).http://www.orthodox-jews.com/origin-of-judaism.html#ixzz4RhBr8gro Yes, but that is based on rabbinic myth that also claims that the Oral Law was given on Mt. Sinai and that there as been a unbroken transmission from Moses to the present day. All of which can be historically disproven. Judaism has always been understood to have originated with Rabbi Yochanan Ben Zakkai in 72 AD in a little town known as Yavneh. I am sorry, but those are the facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealPresence Posted December 2, 2016 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 3 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 625 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 503 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/28/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted December 2, 2016 7 minutes ago, Yowm said: Your beef is with Jesus, not me. Speaking to the unbelieving Jews (v.48) Jesus said... Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. (Joh 8:44) Jesus was rebuking the PHARISEES in this verse. Go back and read it in context. He was not rebuking the entire Jewish people. Stop quoting the Bible until you learn what it means . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealPresence Posted December 2, 2016 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 3 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 625 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 503 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/28/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted December 2, 2016 7 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: Yes, but that is based on rabbinic myth that also claims that the Oral Law was given on Mt. Sinai and that there as been a unbroken transmission from Moses to the present day. All of which can be historically disproven. Judaism has always been understood to have originated with Rabbi Yochanan Ben Zakkai in 72 AD in a little town known as Yavneh. I am sorry, but those are the facts. I think you are confused. You are correct about Rabbinical Judaism starting at Jabneh (Yavneh). It was during this Rabbinical assembly that the Seven Deuterocanonical Books were said to have been ejected from the open Canon of Scripture. Judaism as we know it today started there.HOWEVER, Judaism began with Moses at Mt. Sinai. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 7 minutes ago, RealPresence said: I think you are confused. You are correct about Rabbinical Judaism starting at Jabneh (Yavneh). It was during this Rabbinical assembly that the Seven Deuterocanonical Books were said to have been ejected from the open Canon of Scripture. Judaism as we know it today started there.HOWEVER, Judaism began with Moses at Mt. Sinai. No, it was never called Judaism prior to the fall of the Temple. The ancient OT Jewish religion is not and never was "Judaism." Orthodox Judaism pretends it started at Mt. Sinai, but it didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted December 2, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,134 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,859 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted December 2, 2016 2 hours ago, RealPresence said: Correct - as far as Rabbinic Judaism. Judaism itself goes all the way back to Moses who received the Law from God. The Pharisees had changed so much that Jesus called them children of the devil. So much changed after the temple was destroyed, I don't see how we can really compare them to Moses time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealPresence Posted December 2, 2016 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 3 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 625 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 503 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/28/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted December 2, 2016 2 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: No, it was never called Judaism prior to the fall of the Temple. The ancient OT Jewish religion is not and never was "Judaism." Orthodox Judaism pretends it started at Mt. Sinai, but it didn't. Semantics. The word "Christianity" doesn't appear in the New Testament yet 2 billion or so people claim to be part of Christianity."Judaism" is simply a moniker for the Jewish Religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealPresence Posted December 2, 2016 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 3 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 625 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 503 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/28/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted December 2, 2016 1 minute ago, other one said: The Pharisees had changed so much that Jesus called them children of the devil. So much changed after the temple was destroyed, I don't see how we can really compare them to Moses time. I agree - when it came to the PHARISEES - but not the tenets of the Jewish religion or the Jews as a whole. Don't forget, Jesus said, "Salvation is from the Jews" (John 4:22). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted December 2, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,134 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,859 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted December 2, 2016 what you don't seem to be grasping is that Judaism comes from those Pharisees, not from Jews as a whole.... Jesus called them the children of Satan... if we can't come to an agreement on that, any conversation will be something like speaking of apples and oranges and expecting to come to any conclusion. Judaism takes it's authority from the Talmud including the Kabbalh... it's not really from our old testament. It includes a lot of Babylonian paganism and sorcery even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealPresence Posted December 2, 2016 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 3 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 625 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 503 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/28/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted December 2, 2016 DUPLICATE POST Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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