What do you mean?

[Ezra]

57 minutes ago, ruck1b said:

How do we equate scripture being inspired by God to being Gods word?    Are men no longer inspired by God?  

The way it worked is that God the Holy Spirit supernaturally gave the prophets, evangelists and apostles the exact words which they penned. While the writings were the writings of men, the Author was God Himself.

It would be similar to  a business executive dictating a letter to his secretary and signing it as his own.

Since the Bible was completed by about AD 90, men are no longer inspired to write Scripture.  Those who claim to be inspired are false prophets (e.g. Muhammad and Joseph Smith).

[ruck1b]

10 hours ago, warrior12 said:

Well lets see.  The Bible is the best selling book of all times.  kings tried to destroy it.  It has stood the test of time.  The highest court of Nations use it as a truth bearer.  Many nations use it to inaugurate the highest officials in their lands.   I mean, this must have some significance here on earth  for men to trust in its contents.  

Spiritual things are just what they are, spiritual.   You cannot use worldly methods to comprehend spiritual things.   You want affirmation of God's word, then you have to seek him with your heart and soul.   

1 Corinthians 2King James Version (KJV)

¹⁴ But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

So, i really want to know, what's your question is all about.  You should be forthright and give us what is your line of reasoning and we could have some more dialogue and get some resolve, or at least try.  You question must have some thought pattern behind it. please let us know.    

I'm am not asking these things so you can convince me of anything.   I am asking why are you convinced?    

[LadyKay]

1 hour ago, ruck1b said:

LOL....Hey Kay long time.  Glad to see you are still around.

And as you can tell from my   snarky remarks I have not changed a bit. 

[LadyKay]

24 minutes ago, ruck1b said:

I'm am not asking these things so you can convince me of anything.   I am asking why are you convinced?    

Could it be.  When no one but God knows what I am going through. That right Bible verse shows up to me at just the right time. Either through me opening up my Bible to just the right page and my eyes falling on just the right verse. Or someone posting a verse on my FB page. Then I am like wow! This is just want I needed today my Lord! 

This is my honest and personal  answer.  If it is not want you are looking for then I guess I am not understanding your question. 

[JTC]

Yes, I often had the same experience as LadyKay, especially 35 yrs ago when I was still uncertain of the Bible. It was as if the book came alive just for me. One morning I was reading something in the OT on the way to work. I was a manager back then. I thought that what I read had nothing to do with me and so I was disappointed. But guess what. When I got to work I was presented with a problem that I wouldn't have known how to handle. But it was the same problem I read about on the way to work. God knew that would happen so He lead me to read information I would soon need. This is 1 of the reasons I know the Bible is God's book. He uses it for us.

[ruck1b]

10 hours ago, Jayne said:

[1] In Sunday School a few weeks ago, I taught that Peter said that ALL of Paul's letters were scripture.

• 2 Peter 3:15-16 = "Just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you with the wisdom God gave him.  He writes this way, also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction."

 

[2]  Also in Sunday School during those few weeks, we learned that Peter also said that prophecy comes from the Holy Spirit and not man and that the Holy Spirit gave God's Words.

• 2 Pet. 1:21 = "....for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God."  Notice that Peter is stating that prophecy is not the product of human will.  Instead, prophecy occurs by those moved by the Holy Spirit."

 

[3] Paul did indeed claim that the scriptures [our Bible today] is God's Word.

• 1 Thessalonians 2:13 = "We also constantly give thanks to God for this, that when you received the word of God that you heard from us, you accepted it not as a human word but as what it really is, God's word, which is also at work in you believers."

 

[4]  What "inconsistencies" of the Bible are you talking about that would lead to the rejecting of it?  There are a very few and very minor copyist errors, but nothing that makes the Bible contradict itself as some think and purport.  However, the books are that rejected as scripture - such as the Apocrypha, Enoch, Judas, and many more are rejected because they teach direct and contradictory principles to the gospel.

For example, the Apocryphal book, The Wisdom of Solomon, was known to 1st century Jews, including Paul.  If you do a side-by-side comparison of that book [not written by Solomon] and Paul's letter to the Romans, you can see in many respects where Paul is refuting the teachings of that book that claimed that only the Gentiles were offensive to God and Jews were much "better".  One such specific example is where author the WOS says that he was a "witty child and a good child and came into the world undefiled".  Paul contradicts that and says that "there is none good, no not one" and that "in my flesh dwells no good thing".

You can find resources online that do side-by-side comparisons of these things that will tell you much more than I can.

The books that have been rejected have been rejected - not for minor translation errors - but for doctrinal lies and false teachings.

 

 I really appreciate this reply.  What do you believe some of those hard to understand things were that Peter was referencing?  Do you believe that Paul was claiming that everything he said to the people in letters and in speech was God's word?     What makes you assume I'm rejecting the Bible? 

[ruck1b]

1 hour ago, JTC said:

ruck1b,  One thing you seem to be focusing on is that things have changed in the last 6000 yrs. So in this sense God's information to us has changed. I often understand this by thinking of God as a super smart parent and we're children who are growing up. For example, I would tell a child under 12 to never ever touch an electrical outlet. But once he's older I'd tell him he can touch it and teach him the safe ways to do it. So back in OT times men kept slaves and God told men how to treat slaves fairly. So some of God's instructions to us have changed as our society changes. Nevertheless, what God says is fair really doesn't change.

Let me make a suggestion to you. Instead of asking is the Bible the word of God, rephrase the word "word". Such as: do we believe the Bible is God's instructions to man. Or is the Bible God's rules on how to live to man? (Btw, the answer is yes to both examples) Rephrase the question because we have answered it.

I'm not asking if the Bible is the word of God though.  I think that is the assumption made. I asked for those that believe the bible to be the word of God to explain what they mean by that.  I also don't believe that we can boil the Bible down to God's instructions to man.  I believe that it in part is instructional, but mainly it introduces us to who God is, what his character is like and his desire for his creation.  

 

[warrior12]

1 hour ago, JTC said:

So I hope this helped. The Bible is not the literal word for word words from God. Not like a secretary typing a letter being dictated to her. But it is God's rules, His instructions, His ideas and His thoughts that were told to men and then written down. And this is why it takes years of study and thinking to understand the scriptures.    

 

2 hours ago, ruck1b said:

JTC I really appreciate this comment.  I am 36 for clarity.   Also you also hit the nail on the head with what I was asking.  I also believe that the Bible is not the word of God, but contains God's word.    Again I thank you. 

The words in red now reveals your thought behind the original question and stating your belief now helps the reader to more comprehend  your question.  Ok, you have made the statement and now others can respond and have some fruitful discussion.  I guess, initially, you held back from making this statement as you wanted to hear others opinion of your question before stating your beliefs.  But this only leads to prolong chase of coming back to the beginning as you have now made your statement.  

Your question is valid and i will leave the rest here to comment as to your stated belief.  Have a great day and all the best in the coming new year.

[ruck1b]

1 hour ago, JTC said:

Men are still inspired by God. He still speaks to us, usually in our minds. But He also uses things said in stories to speak to us. I've experienced this. 

Some parts of the Bible are the literal words of God. I'd say the 10 commandments off the top of my head. Most of the Bible is man writing down what God made that man understand. 

The Bible is not God dictating a book to men who typed it out like a secretary would type out a letter from her boss. But that doesn't mean what it says is not reliable and true. It is reliable and true. I once thought the Bible was the literal word -for - word words of God. Then I found out that's not even possible because most people couldn't write, there was no paper and pencils around, so the man God spoke to had to find a scribe. That is someone who knew how to write. We have thousands of copies of the NT and the amazing thing is how much they agree. When you hear there are thousands of errors these errors are misspelled words and grammatical errors. Try something. Take a page of print, any book you like, and copy that page. Then check it. You will have made errors that are unimportant to the meaning but a scholar would still call it an error. If my PC didn't have spell check I'd be making errors galore. 

So I hope this helped. The Bible is not the literal word for word words from God. Not like a secretary typing a letter being dictated to her. But it is God's rules, His instructions, His ideas and His thoughts that were told to men and then written down. And this is why it takes years of study and thinking to understand the scriptures.    

Lets clarify something.  I'm not asking this to spit on the Bible. Sadly we are too used to going on the defensive or making assumptions about why people are asking or speaking about certain things.  When I speak of inconsistencies, I'm not talking about spelling errors, I'm talking about things that don't line up with who God himself is.  We can clearly see it in many things that are written. However we dismiss them or overlook them, but many still claim the bible to the word of God.  How do we reconcile these obvious issues. 

[ruck1b]

1 hour ago, JTC said:

Men are still inspired by God. He still speaks to us, usually in our minds. But He also uses things said in stories to speak to us. I've experienced this. 

Some parts of the Bible are the literal words of God. I'd say the 10 commandments off the top of my head. Most of the Bible is man writing down what God made that man understand. 

The Bible is not God dictating a book to men who typed it out like a secretary would type out a letter from her boss. But that doesn't mean what it says is not reliable and true. It is reliable and true. I once thought the Bible was the literal word -for - word words of God. Then I found out that's not even possible because most people couldn't write, there was no paper and pencils around, so the man God spoke to had to find a scribe. That is someone who knew how to write. We have thousands of copies of the NT and the amazing thing is how much they agree. When you hear there are thousands of errors these errors are misspelled words and grammatical errors. Try something. Take a page of print, any book you like, and copy that page. Then check it. You will have made errors that are unimportant to the meaning but a scholar would still call it an error. If my PC didn't have spell check I'd be making errors galore. 

So I hope this helped. The Bible is not the literal word for word words from God. Not like a secretary typing a letter being dictated to her. But it is God's rules, His instructions, His ideas and His thoughts that were told to men and then written down. And this is why it takes years of study and thinking to understand the scriptures.    

Lets clarify something.  I'm not asking this to spit on the Bible. Sadly we are too used to going on the defensive or making assumptions about why people are asking or speaking about certain things.  When I speak of inconsistencies, I'm not talking about spelling errors, I'm talking about things that don't line up with who God himself is.  We can clearly see it in many things that are written. However we dismiss them or overlook them, but many still claim the bible to the word of God.  How do we reconcile these obvious issues.