In heaven during 1,000 year reign?

[Limey_Bob]

10 hours ago, Keras said:

Sad, really, how so many have been fooled by false teachings.  Paul knew this would happen, 2 Timothy 4:3-4

The whole idea of being taken to heaven is just a Satanic deception, and God has allowed it in order to test peoples faith when things do start to get tough.

Marcus says: There is no place for the Church in the holy Land.  We know the 2 tribes of Judah and Benjamin are there now. Where are the 10  other tribes, as many as the sands of the sea?  They ARE the Christian peoples, from every nation and language. 1 Peter 2:9-10 and Revelation 5:9-10 says we will reign with Him, on earth.

Isaiah 30:26a  cannot be understood any other way than the sun emitting a massive CME.  It will change the world, no doubt about it!

I agree that in eternity, God's people will reign on the earth (Revelation 5:9-10). There is currently no physical reign of God on earth right now. However, since his ascension into heaven, Christ has been reigning as King (Colossians 1:13) over his spiritual kingdom in heaven of deceased saints in the intermediate state. This intermediate state will  end, as will Christ's SPIRITUAL reign in heaven at the second coming when he returns to this earth and the reign of Christ then becomes physical, earthly and eternal.

Edited April 13, 2017 by Limey_Bob

[Marcus O'Reillius]

8 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Okay, I'll accept the challenge as a person who "denies Heaven, as a place yet to be known, as our final destination" and believes that we shall be gathered to Yerushalayim:

Cute.  Try English.  Jerusalem.
 

8 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Zephaniah 3:8-20; Zechariah 1:12-17: Zechariah 2:1-12 Read from Isaiah 40 and onward to chapter 66! You will find it! Several times it talks about gathering the nations to Himself and He shall reign from Jerusalem!

Right, and you forgot a few passages, like Isaiah 4 and Zechariah 8:23.  And there's more: America in the Millennium?  Try Isaiah 18.

Isaiah is not written in pure linear form on a chronological basis.

After the Rapture removes the wheat from the field, and after the tares are burned in the field of this world, God will assemble the few who survive.  Like he says of the women in Isaiah 4, they're in pretty rough shape.

There are two times according to Daniel, taking the days they must go from the midpoint abomination of Daniel 9:27 to the point where they are "safe", the 30 and 45 day periods.  This is in Daniel 12 with the 1290 days, and the 1335 days.  The first allows for the travel to Mount Zion, and the second for the "encampment" or Sukkot.

And like Isaiah describes in 30:26, God will bind their wounds and heal them.  There is more about this in Ezekiel chapter 47.

These are all MILLENNIAL passages.

NOWHERE does it describe immortal and imperishable people living alongside moral and perishable people.

We are to be Priests.  They are to come to the Festivals.

 

Quote

The parables of Matthew 13 (except for the first one) are about the KINGDOM! They are about the 1000 years, the "Millennium!" They are NOT about this current time at all! The "gathering into His barn" is talking about at the END of the Millennium giving His Kingdom to His Father!

Nope.  I totally disagree.  Go figure, eh?  What a surprise.

The first desolation is fire and blood.  It happens on the Day of the Lord.  And mountains will "smoke".

There are "ages" - which is not specified in the parable, so speaking, they do understand.  Understanding is based on one's eschatology, and I don't use yours; I use mine.

The two times weeds are pulled out are in the one 'seven' - which takes the "proud" out living only the "meek" and the Remnant Jews, and the final winnowing of the fish good and bad at the end of the Millennium, when the wicked are completely eliminated in the Lake of Fire and even it is done away with in its existence.

[Marcus O'Reillius]

3 hours ago, Keras said:

Where, then is your explanation of what causes the sun to shine with seven times it's normal brightness, as seven days in one. ? 

Where it's been many times over!  It's figurative speech for a bright, sunny day!  That's just the opposite of when the storm clouds gather and God's Wrath goes forth!

How many times must we go over this?  Infinite!  Einstein defined insanity as: doing the same thing over again expecting different results.  You don't get it.  I get that.

[Keras]

10 hours ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

Where it's been many times over!  It's figurative speech for a bright, sunny day!  That's just the opposite of when the storm clouds gather and God's Wrath goes forth!

How many times must we go over this?  Infinite!  Einstein defined insanity as: doing the same thing over again expecting different results.  You don't get it.  I get that.

Isaiah 30:26a is a plain literal statement.  A description of an event that is known to be quite possible; in fact quite probable. Dr Richard Fisher of NASA Heliophysics Lab, said: It isn't a matter of whether a big CME will strike the earth, its a matter of when.

Your continued denial of the Prophesied truths: making them to be just harmless allegories, like many who just throw them into the dustbin of history,  places you as one of the scoffers as described by 2 Peter 3:3-7 and leaves you in the dark about what verse 7 says God will do.

Why believe something that is not clearly stated in scripture; the rapture to heaven, and reject prophesies that are?  Prophesies like this forthcoming Judgement/punishment by fire; detailed and reiterated over 100 times in the Bible.

[Marcus O'Reillius]

2 hours ago, Keras said:

Isaiah 30:26a is a plain literal statement. 

~ Doesn't understand hyperbole and figurative speech.

If it's so plain and literal, how can the sun exploding be the Day of the Lord desolation upon the earth when it is happening on a day when God is healing and binding the wounds upon His people He had inflicted previously from the desolations He wrought upon the earth beforehand?

I get it; you don't get it.

[Retrobyter]

8 hours ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

Cute.  Try English.  Jerusalem.

Shalom, Marcus.

Why should I use a bad English transliteration for a HEBREW name?! At one time, "Jerusalem" was a pretty close approximation of the Greek transliteration of the Hebrew name, but now, it's pronounced so badly that we need a NEW transliteration of it. It's God's city located in the Land of Israel, and they speak HEBREW there! Look on any Israeli map, and you will find the city spelled "yod-reish-vav-shin-lamed-meim," "Yeruwshalaim!"

8 hours ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

Right, and you forgot a few passages, like Isaiah 4 and Zechariah 8:23.  And there's more: America in the Millennium?  Try Isaiah 18.

Isaiah is not written in pure linear form on a chronological basis.

Why do I perceive you to be so negative and bitter all the time? Interpretation of these verses may be incorrect, but the verses still stand and the TIMING of these verses is still valid!

8 hours ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

After the Rapture removes the wheat from the field, and after the tares are burned in the field of this world, God will assemble the few who survive.  Like he says of the women in Isaiah 4, they're in pretty rough shape.

Sorry, but the Rapture is not the removal of the wheat from the field, referring back to the parable of the Wheat and the Tares. ... UNLESS, you really DO think that the Rapture happens at the end of the Millennium. Is that what you're saying?

8 hours ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

There are two times according to Daniel, taking the days they must go from the midpoint abomination of Daniel 9:27 to the point where they are "safe", the 30 and 45 day periods.  This is in Daniel 12 with the 1290 days, and the 1335 days.  The first allows for the travel to Mount Zion, and the second for the "encampment" or Sukkot.

Actually, Daniel 12 is based upon Daniel 11, and Daniel 11 is about the abomination that Antiochus IV Epiphanes set up during his reign over the Seleucid Empire from 175 to 164 B.C. If you would READ Daniel 11, you might discover this, IF you know a little history. For instance, Dan. 11:3-4 talks about Alexander the Great and how his empire would be divided into four kingdoms.

Daniel 9 was fulfilled and is being fulfilled by the Messiah Himself. It was HE who caused the sacrifice and oblation (gift) to cease by being the LAST sacrifice God would accept. (Heb. 10:10-14.) It was HE who made them "desolate" because of the widespread abominations of those who were supposed to be leading the people, the Pharisees ("Separatists") and the scribes (Torah teachers). (Matt. 23:38.)

8 hours ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

And like Isaiah describes in 30:26, God will bind their wounds and heal them.  There is more about this in Ezekiel chapter 47.

These are all MILLENNIAL passages.

NOWHERE does it describe immortal and imperishable people living alongside moral and perishable people.

We are to be Priests.  They are to come to the Festivals.

Well, we DO have passages that describe some people glowing while others do not. THAT'S what is visible and noticeable.

Isaiah 60:1-3
1 Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee.
2 For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.
3 And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.
KJV

Daniel 12:2-3
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.
KJV

Matthew 13:43
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
KJV

And, these are NOT figurative passages any more than Moses' face glowing was "figurative!"

It's also implied in this passage:

Malachi 3:16-17
16 Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.
17 And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.
KJV

8 hours ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

Nope.  I totally disagree.  Go figure, eh?  What a surprise.

The first desolation is fire and blood.  It happens on the Day of the Lord.  And mountains will "smoke".

There are "ages" - which is not specified in the parable, so speaking, they do understand.  Understanding is based on one's eschatology, and I don't use yours; I use mine.

I use Peter's "eschatology" in 2 Peter 3:3-13. Those are the three ages of the earth. They are separated from one another by the Flood (during Noah's 600th year) and the Fire (happening just before the GWTJ). We are currently in the second age and that will continue until the end of the Millennium. After the Fire, we will be entering into the third age, which some call "the eternal state."

8 hours ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

The two times weeds are pulled out are in the one 'seven' - which takes the "proud" out leaving only the "meek" and the Remnant Jews, and the final winnowing of the fish good and bad at the end of the Millennium, when the wicked are completely eliminated in the Lake of Fire and even it is done away with in its existence.

TWO times?! No, It's just the once at the end of the Millennium. You've GOT to consider the elements of the parable when investigating the parables of Matthew 13.

In this particular parable, Yeshua` defines for us many of the elements of this parable:

Matthew 13:24-30, 36-43
24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
...
36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
37 He answered and said unto them,
He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38 The field is the world;
the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but
the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil;
the harvest is the end of the world (age); and
the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
KJV

Now, simply make the substitutions:

24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto the Son of man which sowed the children of the kingdom in his world:
25 But while men slept, the devil came and sowed the children of the wicked one among the children of the kingdom, and went his way.
26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the children of the wicked one also.
27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow the children of the kingdom in thy world? from whence then hath it the children of the wicked one?
28 He said unto them, The devil hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the children of the wicked one, ye root up also the children of the kingdom with them.
30 Let both grow together until the end of the world (age): and in the time of the end of the world (age) I will say to the angels, Gather ye together first the children of the wicked one, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the children of the kingdom into my barn.

Then, add Yeshua`s explanation:

40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world (age).
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father.

And, this fits with 1 Cor. 15:20-28:

1 Corinthians 15:20-28
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he (the Christ) shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he (the Christ) shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he (the Christ) must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he (God the Father) hath put all things under his (the Christ's) feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him (the Christ, the Son), then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him  (God the Father) that put all things under him (the Christ), that God (the Father) may be all in all.
KJV

So, we have three times of Resurrection listed:
1. The Messiah Himself, who is the firstfruits (Hebrew: ree'shiyt = Greek: aparchee = "hasty fruit")
2. They that are the Messiah's when the Messiah returns (at the beginning of the Millennium)
3. The end, when the Messiah delivers the Kingdom up to God the Father

Then, Paul goes into an explanation of the Millennium:

1. The Messiah returns and resurrects those who are His.
2. The Messiah begins His reign.
3. He begins to subdue "all things" at the beginning of the Millennium.
4. Throughout the Millennium, He is subduing His enemies, putting them under His feet.
5. At the end of the Millennium, the LAST enemy He subdues is death itself.
6. Then, the Messiah gives up the Kingdom to His Father. The Messiah's Kingdom as King of kings becomes the Kingdom of His Father.
7. Finally, God the Father is all in all.
8. Yeshua` continues His reign as the King of Israel, subordinate to His Father's Empire. (Luke 1:30-33)

Therefore, "gathering all things that offend OUT OF HIS KINGDOM" comes at the END of the Millennium, and "the righteous shining in the Kingdom of their Father (God the Father)" is at the start of the Eternal State following the GWTJ in the New Earth and its New Sky when the New Jerusalem descends to the New Earth.

It's that simple.

[Keras]

6 hours ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

Doesn't understand hyperbole and figurative speech.

If it's so plain and literal, how can the sun exploding be the Day of the Lord desolation upon the earth when it is happening on a day when God is healing and binding the wounds upon His people He had inflicted previously from the desolations He wrought upon the earth beforehand?

Bible study axiom: If a verse can be understood and fulfilled literally, then it should be.   

I have a list of over 30 scriptures that say the Lord will protect His people on His Day of wrath. Isaiah 43:2, Zephaniah 2:3, Psalm 97:10-12 + +

That is why we are told to 'call upon the Lord' on that terrible Day. Joel 2:32, Acts 2:21  And that is why all those who have believed the rapture lie, will be shocked and terrified.

[enoob57]

The careful with God's things know this
James 3

[Marcus O'Reillius]

10 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Why should I use a bad English transliteration for a HEBREW name?!

Because we speak English.  It's called communication.  You can transmit, but if it is not received, it's not communication.

[Marcus O'Reillius]

10 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Why do I perceive you to be so negative and bitter all the time? Interpretation of these verses may be incorrect, but the verses still stand and the TIMING of these verses is still valid!

Why do you?  It's your perception.  Like the motto said in the Church: "Don't believe everything you think."

Timing has everything to do with interpretation when speaking about end-time prophecy.