If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath,

[simplejeff]

2 hours ago, Cobalt1959 said:

Why is it even necessary to post something like that?  I've seen ad hominems on an individual before, but this is the first time I've ever seen an ad hominem attached to an entire group of posters because they are "old".

Reported.

Do you have a problem with english ?  Have you alway had this problem ? 

hint: it is not anything to do with their age.   It is members of cults that don't broadcast that information any more. (easiest way to explain this to you.) ... and no,  as long as they do not break the rules,  there is nothing you can do about this - they will continue posting as usual.

[simplejeff]

1 hour ago, Abdicate said:

You lie.

I never have.

Period.

It might not be on purpose,  ( lying)....

or it might be on purpose.... who can tell ?

Seems there may be miscommunication / not understanding what others post on many threads like this one .... (just giving the benefit of the doubt to him and others) ...

He defended the pagan cults posting,  so it is hard to know what to expect ,  maybe it will become apparent later ? Yahweh Willing !

[simplejeff]

47 minutes ago, Abdicate said:

I suppose that's true, but this is the third time I've been accused of requiring to keep the Ten Commandments for salvation, which is utter hogwash. It's an attack based on ignorance and fear.

Realize that a lot of posters cannot comprehend english very well. (e.g. "old", "love", "faith", "obey", "trust", "heresy" )    Then this is compounded by them learning from other sources without even reading the BIBLE.  Then this is .... well,  so many obstacles in lives , so much trust put in false teachings, 

so few seeking Yahweh's Rulership over them (His Kingdom, now, today, every day) ... seemingly insurmountable to many people posting ,  and actually insurmountable for them in many instances ......

and confidence/ support/ help is given to them by their group ('church' or other)  "as long as" they continue supporting their support group, (rcc, copeland, etc etc etc) ,

without any truth basis,  outside of Yahweh's Kingdom,  for whatever reason, whatever it is they value.....

[Justin Adams]

11 hours ago, Cobalt1959 said:

17 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

I think some LIKE to pretend you have to do all the law on the Sabbath as an excuse for not observing it.
Truth is, you ARE free to choose. It is between you and your God. The Lord knoweth the heart and innermost thoughts...

Funny.  It is actually the people pushing going to church on Saturday that actually do this. 

OOPS. Having a bit of difficulty with the language are we. Misquoted/partial quote: the bit in green above is what I said that you left out. Very poor form that! - "Truth is, you ARE free to choose"

We are not pushing anyone. We report truth for readers. But methinks you protest too much...

Methinks you try to bamboozle the readers with your attempts to Legalize the issue. 

Just think. What a very very high horse you might have to climb down off if you ever actually recognized and observed the Sabbath. And do not quote the 'food law' stuff. I am well aware thanks.

It is not a salvation issue either - so stop the straw-horse analogies.
Also as stated SO MANY TIMES, read about the church fathers and those who were the next and contemporary generations from the apostles. And before you dismiss them, remember they were arguing over your canon, so they must be important to you.  Oh. And much of their writings have been doctored, but language scholars can tell, so don't quote the doctored bits please.

I will put it in BIG PRINT AGAIN...

THE FATHERS ALL FOLLOWED THE APOSTLES WARNING TO THE EARLY CHURCH OF NOT JUDAIZING THE SABBATH.
I.E. DO AWAY WITH THE ORDINANCES AND RECOGNIZE YAHWEH AND YESHUA AND KEEP THE SABBATH REST WITHOUT THE ENCUMBRANCES OF THE LAW.  Just like Yeshua did.

[Justin Adams]

12 hours ago, Cobalt1959 said:

And neither are you.

I am sorry that I can not explain it better. What is happening, is that the Law of The Lord is written in the very DNA, or heart of the believer (or should be).
Yahweh in the heart compels us to witness truth and His Sabbath is one of those HEART TRUTHS... "This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. Howbeit in vain do they worship Me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men."

You have to differentiate between man's dogmas (ordinances) and Yahweh's Commandments. God's Commandments are perpetual, man's dogmas have been nailed to the cross of Yeshua.

In Colossians 2:14, the apostle Paul wrote, speaking of Christ, “Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to His cross.”
Ephesians 2:15 states, “Having abolished in His [Christ’s] flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in Himself of two one new man, so making peace.”
These verses do not do away with God’s Laws. The term “ordinances” is translated from the Greek word dogma, referring to human laws and decrees—“the commandments and doctrines of men” (Col. 2:22).
Christ referred to such humanly-devised ordinances in Mark 7:6-9, when He stated, “Well has Isaiah prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. Howbeit in vain do they worship Me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things you do…Full well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your own tradition.” In verse 13, He stated, “Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which you have delivered: and many such like things do you.”

Sadly, what the Christian Church has done is superimpose on God's Salvation another set of doctrines and dogmas. That is why it does not represent Yeshua and dishonors Yahweh so readily.

[simplejeff]

7 minutes ago, Cobalt1959 said:

how you know.... the posts are motivated by ignorance and fear.

they often say so, or admit it in so many words themselves (i.e. everyone is known/ judged by their own words, not by someone else's ) :

7 minutes ago, Cobalt1959 said:

I'll anxiously await

 

[simplejeff]

16 minutes ago, Cobalt1959 said:

how you know

 

16 minutes ago, Cobalt1959 said:

I'll anxiously await

"how you know"  -- means you apparently don't know.

"anxiously"  --   not exactly a peaceful heart or mind.

No need for asking,    if you already know, nor for waiting anxiously,

for anyone who rests in Christ.

[Justin Adams]

11 minutes ago, Cobalt1959 said:

It sounds good.  It sounds logical.  The problem with your logic is that it does not apply.

God instructed the Israelites how to keep the Sabbath.  Man's dogma has nothing to do with it.  Components such as the sacrifice and doing no work are dictated by God.  If you are not doing those things, you are not keeping the Sabbath and man's interpretation has nothing to do with it.  All you are doing is going to church on Saturday.

1 Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying, 2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread. 3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death. 5 But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; 6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition. 7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,

8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

When it comes to Jesus and the law, we have to conclude that the “Christian” religion has let us down by not holding to the original teachings of Christ, who Himself held to the original teachings of the Old Testament Scriptures. And as the teachings of Jewish religious leaders corrupted Moses, so did the later teachers of Christ—that is, false teachers—corrupt the teachings of Jesus. In reality, Jesus and Moses agreed.

Let’s ask a question here. If Jesus were here today, which day would He observe as the Sabbath? It would be the day He commanded in the Ten Commandments, the seventh day.

The real Jesus kept the law and expected His disciples to do the same. He made clear His attitude about anyone diminishing one iota from the law. Anyone not keeping it is only using the good name of Christ without doing what He said.

[Guest shiloh357]

5 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

1 Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying, 2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread. 3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death. 5 But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; 6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition. 7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,

8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

When it comes to Jesus and the law, we have to conclude that the “Christian” religion has let us down by not holding to the original teachings of Christ, who Himself held to the original teachings of the Old Testament Scriptures. And as the teachings of Jewish religious leaders corrupted Moses, so did the later teachers of Christ—that is, false teachers—corrupt the teachings of Jesus. In reality, Jesus and Moses agreed.

Let’s ask a question here. If Jesus were here today, which day would He observe as the Sabbath? It would be the day He commanded in the Ten Commandments, the seventh day.

The real Jesus kept the law and expected His disciples to do the same. He made clear His attitude about anyone diminishing one iota from the law. Anyone not keeping it is only using the good name of Christ without doing what He said.

Jesus IS the Sabbath.   Jesus is the termination of the Sabbath day observance.   He would not observe the Sabbath day because He is the personification of everything the Sabbath entails.  He has fulfilled it all.

True disciples of Jesus follow Jesus' commandments, but Jesus did not command Sabbath observance. It is the only commandment not repeated to the Church out of the 10 commandments.  

Jesus' teachings have not been corrupted, at all. 

Honoring Jesus as the Sabbath is not diminishing any part of the law.  Jesus is greater than the law and is the one the law pointed us to.  To honor Jesus as our Sabbath rest is to honor God and His law.

[Justin Adams]

Following is what the Lord God says about the Sabbath. It is up to you if you want to accept mere doctrines of men and not observe God's Sabbath that He gave to mankind. There is NOT a single scripture to support this doctrine.
There is NO scripture that says Yeshua replaced the Sabbath. There is NO scripture that says Yeshua did away with the Sabbath. Please read on about what God said about the Sabbath and His laws.
The WORD gave us these laws, but please do not confuse them with the modern day pharisees' additions.

Often we hear that Jesus taught against the Sabbath as a day of rest.  After all, he healed on the Sabbath, he defended his disciples for picking grain on the Sabbath.  Every time the Pharisees challenged him about the rules of the Sabbath, he set them straight that “The Sabbath is made for man, not man for the Sabbath.” (Mark 2:27)

I heard those teachings; I read the Pharisees’ criticism of his actions on the Sabbath and Jesus’ responses defending himself and his disciples.  I was convinced that the Sabbath and all its rules had been done away with when Jesus came and taught us the New Covenant.

Then I read the original instructions for the Sabbath in the Old Testament.  With that understanding, I re-read Jesus’ conversations with the Pharisees.   I found that none of the Pharisees’ complaints about Jesus’ behavior on the Sabbath were actually in the Bible’s instructions.  They had added their own directives onto God’s.   I realized that Jesus’ responses to them were disputing their own teachings, but actually upheld the original instructions for the Sabbath.  The debate was never about whether to keep the Sabbath, but rather about how to keep it.

So, what was Jesus saying about the Sabbath?  To solve the riddle, we must first refer to God’s original instructions regarding the Sabbath, then review the basis for the teaching of the Pharisees.  With that context, we can more clearly see what the rabbis’ complaints were and also understand Jesus’ responses.

Christ did away with the ordinances of men, not God’s Law. Paul calls this Law “holy, just and good” (Rom. 7:12). God’s Law was given for our benefit and is more binding than ever. Notice Deuteronomy 4:40: “You shall keep therefore His statutes, and His commandments, which I command you this day, that it may go well with you, and with your children after you, and that you may prolong your days upon the earth, which the LORD your God gives you, for ever.”

God’s Instructions for the Sabbath

The most concise instructions are in Leviticus 23:3:

“There are six days when you may work, but the seventh day is a day of sabbath rest, a day of sacred assembly.  You are not to do any work; wherever you live, it is a sabbath to the Lord.”

These instructions are repeated, specified and illustrated over and over throughout the Old Testament and include:

Set apart the seventh day of each week as a holy day – Exodus 20:8-11, 31:13-16, 35:2, 5:14, Genesis 2:3

Rest from your work and producing/production – Exodus 16:23-29, 5:14-15

Refrain from pursuing your own interests – Isaiah 58:13-14

Assemble with other believers – Leviticus 23:3

Give an offering – Numbers 28:9-10, Nehemiah 10:32-33

Refrain from buying and selling / conducting commerce – Jeremiah 17:19-27, Amos 8:5, Nehemiah 13:15-22

The Sabbath Gives Life, Not Takes It Away

The original instructions of the Sabbath lead us not into hunger, neglect of ourselves and others, prolonged illness or condemnation as the rabbinic law did, but just the opposite:  joy, healing, building up ourselves and others, intimacy with God and abundant life.  I can attest to this in my own observance of the Sabbath.

Jesus came that “we might have life and have it more abundantly” (John 10:10).  Yet, he also said,

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.  For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.  Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.  For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.”  Matthew 5:17-20

The Sabbath is just one example of how God’s law brings abundant life.  Instead of a day of don’ts and can’ts that the scribes and Pharisees had made it, Jesus showed us the true meaning and intent of the Sabbath — a day to sit at his feet and receive his life, not depriving ourselves or others, but planning ahead to take a day in which we put away our own pursuits and pursue only God.

In Colossians 2:14, the apostle Paul wrote, speaking of Christ, “Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to His cross.”

Ephesians 2:15 states, “Having abolished in His [Christ’s] flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in Himself of two one new man, so making peace.”

These verses do not do away with God’s Laws. The term “ordinances” is translated from the Greek word dogma, referring to human laws and decrees—“the commandments and doctrines of men” (Col. 2:22).

Christ referred to such humanly-devised ordinances in Mark 7:6-9, when He stated, “Well has Isaiah prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. Howbeit in vain do they worship Me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things you do…Full well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your own tradition.” In verse 13, He stated, “Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which you have delivered: and many such like things do you.”

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While Christ’s sacrifice did do away with the need for animal sacrifices, as well as eliminating other physical, priestly duties and various other physical requirements (Heb. 7:12; also again notice Gal. 3:10-13), the “ordinances” referred to pharisaical decrees that restricted and burdened the Jews and certain ascetic, oppressive ordinances of “touch not, taste not, handle not” (vs. 21) that had been bound on the Colossian Gentiles. (Notice I Corinthians 8:4-10.)

They became a “middle wall of partition” (Eph. 2:14) between Jews and Gentiles being called into God’s Church. They resulted in prejudice, animosity, suspicion and separation. But Christ demolished that barrier by His supreme sacrifice: “For He [Christ] is our peace, who has made both [Jews and Gentiles] one, and has broken down the middle wall of partition between us” (Eph. 2:14).

Many newly begotten Christians in Paul’s time continued to be burdened by their former beliefs. For instance, at the Temple, there was a literal wall separating the court of the Gentiles from that of the Jews. Gentiles dared not pass it, under the penalty of death.

It was hard for some Jewish converts to leave in the past such a deeply ingrained aspect of their lives. The apostle Peter himself was even affected by it (Gal. 2:11-12), and was reprimanded by Paul, who also showed that physical circumcision (to which the Jews expected Gentile converts to adhere), “is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God” (I Cor. 7:19).

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The Gentiles were influenced by pagan philosophy, with its restraints and regulations. The city of Colossae was renowned for its asceticism. The pagans passed judgment on Christians for the freedom they enjoyed—eating meats (again notice I Cor. 8:4-10), drinking wine, and observing God’s weekly and annual Sabbaths in the joyous manner He intended.

Also, asceticism taught that by doing penance (abstinence, fasting, and even self-inflicted pain and suffering), one could receive release from the guilt of sin. Speaking against such human standards and judgments, Paul wrote, “Beware lest any man spoil you through [human] philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ” (Col. 2:8). In other words, all such practices had no spiritual power and reaped no spiritual benefit.

Christ did not do away with any part of God’s Law (Matt. 5:17). He offered Himself as the sacrifice for our sins (paying the death penalty in our stead and cleansing our conscience of guilt). What He abolished were the ascetic ordinances and Talmudic traditions (“heavy burdens and grievous to be borne”-Matt. 23:4). Peter wrote, “…Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps” (I Pet. 2:21). Christians are those who “walk, even as He walked” (I John 2:6).

Through His sacrifice, Christ made it possible for all (Jews and Gentiles) to become spiritual Israelites, the children of God (Gal. 3:26-29), living together within the framework of His perfect Law (Jms. 1:25). In Matthew 5:17-18, He stated, “Think not that I am come to destroy the Law, or the Prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill…Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the Law, till all be fulfilled.” Christ stressed the importance of keeping the spirit of the Law, as well as the letter (Matt. 5), stating, “If you know these things, happy are you if you do them” (John 13:17).

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Christ did away with the ordinances of men, not God’s Law. Paul calls this Law “holy, just and good” (Rom. 7:12). God’s Law was given for our benefit and is more binding than ever. Notice Deuteronomy 4:40: “You shall keep therefore His statutes, and His commandments, which I command you this day, that it may go well with you, and with your children after you, and that you may prolong your days upon the earth, which the LORD your God gives you, for ever.”