Who is not welcome in your church?

[Churchmouse]

3 hours ago, Neighbor said:

"There is a difference between the business of being a church and the business of running the church. Those are two different things altogether."

Well sure there is! Plus As Gary Lee has said about the church God has led he and his wife to, the local church membership is made up of sinners, many with terrible societal sins, but all with sin against God.

But from my perspective, that does not make the local body  of Christ an open community. Nor is it a place that welcomes all things and all people in to do as they wish, whenever they wish.

There is order in the church, there is structure within the organization of church. It is Biblical to have order, just as Paul gave guidance to Timothy about the church. Overseers (Elders) exist, deacons exist the older women are tocome alongside the younger. There is to be organized giving and payments too, even double portions.

People are encouraged to attend, membership is not required, but  decorum is.

And with very few exceptions, perhaps none (as I believe there are none), we are all sinners. Some  saved, saved by grace alone. Some are hypocrites, I suppose, but I personally am not qualified to know that. And sadly some will come and go never knowing  the security of our Lord's sacrifice for us. I have hope that the Holy Spirit will call them to their repentance at another time another place.

There is also Biblical instruction as to how to handle membership, and fellowship, found at Matthew 18. Those instructions are complete with the command for total forgiveness by all the body to any member that repents of their offense. When they do they are to totally forgive ( forget), never again to again hold the offense against the member that has repented of their misdeed.

So I conclude the church is not an open community. It has very well defined order and structure that each individual that asks for and  accepts membership declares they will follow. Membership is a privilege, and really a duty. It comes with personal responsibilities. The church does not survive without those that will abide by the Biblical guidelines for the church body.

I think you are confusing an open community with an open society.

Open communities open their arm to those who are in need, but they are not subject to change within itself more than is required to service the needs of those who come into them. In this way an open community is like a long term recovery and rehabilitation center, which holds it's own standards of care and concern. They accept all people, but those who find no healing there are welcome to remain or to leave, but the care will stay to same as the goals of the center are the same. Those that are not healed may be looking for their own brand of healing or simply not ready to accept that brand of healing. This does not mean that the officials there will modify the treatment or allow the person to upset the treatment of others, for that treatment is developed by the master of all healing.  It is the standards of the community that make them appealing to others, because of these standards and it is the look from the outside that draws, like a moth to the flame, those who lack the light.

An open society is one who is as lost as those who seek and open community. they have no structure there, but desire to sample the taste of every flavor that flitters close enough for them to acknowledge  their existence. There is no values or culture within an open society that will deter those within such a thing to make a judgement value of anything within their grasp. There is no anchor to define them and as such whatever they have determined to refer to themselves as is mutable as they are.

An open society can, as a swarm of gnats can enter into a open community, but and open society will never register the open community and will simple fly through it or be driven out by the officials of the community, as they will become a disruption in their current form. That does not mean that those within the open society will not effected by their experience as their are some within the swam will find footing within the community. It doesn't mean that the open community will not place screen doors on  the openings, but those screen doors will never be locked by anyone except the master himself and until he does lock them, they will swing freely in both direction.

We are a service not a spectral. Their is a dignity there. There is a reason for being there that comes down from the ultimate power in the universe. We need nothing beyond that because there is nothing beyond that but distraction.

Edited April 12, 2017 by Churchmouse

[Churchmouse]

1 hour ago, Jacie said:

Churchmouse, Like I said in an earlier post, I never asked my mom why she decided to convert to the RCC. I didn't feel and still don't feel it's my place to ask her, but I think you may have just hit the nail on the head. I've known for a long time that there were problems, I just never told her.

Thank you and God Bless,

Jacie

To honor your mother is to understand what makes up the individual that is your mom. To make inquiry into the manner of the growth of others, is to honor each other as well as those we acknowledge in our lives as it provides a chance for education on our part and a chance for reflection on theirs.  It is not to challenge the path that our parents have taken, but a chance to understand the difficulties that may have been placed in their way and in this way, we might just find we newer and better ways to love them and those who like them have followed similar paths.

It is akin to the idea of going the second mile, that Christ spoke of, but it is a journey from within and not without.

Edited April 12, 2017 by Churchmouse

[Churchmouse]

12 hours ago, Gary Lee said:

The church my wife and I attend for about thirty five years  also has problems.  It's full of a bunch of hypocrites. I'm pretty sure they're also a bunch of sinners, too. I'm pretty sure the pastor is still a sinner. You wouldn't believe some of the problems they have, and some of the things we have heard. Divorced and remarried couples, ex jailbirds and drug addicts, suicide attempts, running around on their spouses, adulterers, smokers and drinkers, and some worse I don't want to mention............ But it's my church, or should I say, the place (building) where a bunch of forgiven brothers and sisters come together to fellowship,  study, drink coffee,  pray, worship, cry, confess, and get filled up for another week.  As believers, it's the only place of worship/fellowship that my wife and I have ever been members of. Only one. So many I know flit from church to church, looking for the unreachable something. My wife and I, all my kids, and some grand kids, were baptized there.  People come and go. Yet there is a core of long time members that have a different idea of keeping the doors open. To serve.  There have been times of trouble for sure, but the Lord has never given me permission to leave. Tribulations come for sure, like in any family,  but then, joy comes in the morning.  I, like the rest of the members, have a responsibility as a member of the body. I have been placed there (by God) to serve a certain function as a PART of this body. I think most of the reasons for leaving, like wrong music or choir too slow/fast/quiet/loud, sermons too early/late,  long/short/boring/critical/ guilty feeling, Wednesday nite supper dropped/started, paint color in worship hall too neutral/bright, and on and on. But. The pastor preaches JESUS CHRIST and Him Crucified. Total scripture, out of the bible. I really don't attend to be entertained, though, yet, most times it is fun. Yes, FUN. Maybe it's because God has given us a sense  of family, unity, and no social clicks.  The church is over one hundred and twenty years old. I haven't heard of, nor can I think of, any one that was not allowed through the doors ....................... Were trying to make disciples.

The path that we are on, does not means the drivers around us aren't accidents waiting to happen. It only means we are driving down that path to reach it's end. Just be sure to carry insurance and pray a lot. Sometimes being saved extends to us saving ourselves from fellow Christians.

Edited April 12, 2017 by Churchmouse

[hmbld]

On April 11, 2017 at 5:26 PM, enoob57 said:

alligators... I have a hard time accepting alligators in church  

try looking a little deeper than just skin deep.  under this calloused, rough skin I'm still a sinner who needs Jesus, let me in please!

[enoob57]

4 hours ago, hmbld said:

try looking a little deeper than just skin deep.  under this calloused, rough skin I'm still a sinner who needs Jesus, let me in please!

alright but you must use Lubriderm