The Book of Enoch

[SavedOnebyGrace]

12 hours ago, daughterofGrace said:

What evidence does Lumpkin give for this?  Aside from one supposed allusion to the Book of Enoch in Jude (and some scholars doubt that it really is referring to that book specifically), is there anything that provides concrete evidence that the first-century Christians considered it divinely inspired?

It was never part of the Tanakh (Hebrew Bible).  That would suggest to me that first-century Christians, many of whom were Jewish, would not give credence to it.

Here's some parallels to ponder:

Quote

Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth. (Mat 5:5) The elect shall possess light, joy and peace, and they shall inherit the earth. (Enoch 5:7 {6:9})

the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the son (John 5:22). the principal part of the judgment was assigned to him, the Son of man. (Enoch 69:27 {68:39})

shall inherit everlasting life (Mat. 19:29) those who will inherit eternal life (Enoch 40:9 {40:9})

"Wo unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation. (Luke 6:24) Woe to you who are rich, for in your riches have you trusted; but from your riches you shall be removed. (Enoch 94:8 {93:7}).

Ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. (Mat. 19:28) I will place each of them on a throne of glory (Enoch 108:12 {105:26})

Woe unto that man through whom the Son of man is betrayed! It had been good for that man if he had not been born. (Mat. 26:24) Where will the habitation of sinners be . . . who have rejected the Lord of spirits. It would have been better for them, had they never been born. (Enoch 38:2 {38:2})

between us and you there is a great gulf fixed. (Luke 16:26) by a chasm . . . [are] their souls are separated (Enoch 22: 9,11{22:10,12})

In my Father's house are many mansions (John 14:2) In that day shall the Elect One sit upon a throne of glory, and shall choose their conditions and countless habitations. (Enoch 45:3 {45:3})

that ye may be called the children of light (John 12:36) the good from the generation of light (Enoch 108:11 {105: 25})

the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life. (John 4:14) all the thirsty drank, and were filled with wisdom, having their habitation with the righteous, the elect, and the holy. (Enoch 48:1 {48:1})

It seems like Jesus was familiar with 1 Enoch.

[daughterofGrace]

1 hour ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

Here's some parallels to ponder:

It seems like Jesus was familiar with 1 Enoch.

Thanks so much for providing all of that, SavedonebyGrace.  I appreciate the trouble you have taken to post it.

I have this to say in response:

The Book of Enoch was NEVER at any time part of Hebrew Scripture.  When Jesus quoted Hebrew Scripture, he always said, "It is written . . . . " to show clearly that he was quoting it.  Did he say that for any of the above quotations that would indicate he was quoting the Book of Enoch?  Given that it was never part of the Tanakh, I'm thinking he didn't, but, of course, I would have to look them all up to be sure.

Secondly, these verses from Enoch are taken out of context.  It's important to read them in context to see if they mean what Jesus meant when he said something of a similar nature.  I have read through Enoch and can't see any parallels with its content.

Lastly, it isn't the general, superficial similarities that are important.  It's the extreme differences that constitute the reason why Enoch was never considered the Word of God.  It's a fantastical book about angels/demons (the names given are not found in the Bible, see chapter 6 of Enoch, and supposedly gives an account of the Nephilim) with offspring who are 450 feet tall.  Then there's information about judgment.

I haven't sat down to pick out all the things in the Book of Enoch that don't line up with Scripture, something I would gladly do had I more time.  But I trust that those who decided what was God-breathed Scripture and what wasn't were led by the Holy Spirit to make their decisions.  And they rejected Enoch.

An interesting topic, that's for sure!  Thanks for starting it, allroses.

 

 

 

Edited May 12, 2017 by daughterofGrace
clarification

[Sister]

On 10/05/2017 at 0:41 AM, Allroses48 said:

To understand the Catholic and Protestant Bibles we must know what books the Biblical authors considered important and divinely inspired during the time they wrote the biblical manuscripts. Books outside the traditional 66 have been mentioned in the Bible in three different ways: by name, quotation, or alluded too. So what books did the biblical authors consider important? Here is a list:

1) The Book of Jasher

2) The Annals of Jehu

3) The Treatise of the book of Kings

4) The book of Records, Book of Chronicans of Ahasuerus

5) The Acts of Solomon

6) The Sayings of Hozai

7) The Chronicles of David

8) The Book of Wars of the Lord

9)The Chronicals of Samuel, Nathan, Gad

10) Samuels Book

11) The Prophecy of Ahijah the Shilonite

12) The Treatise of the Prophet Iddo

13) The Book of Enoch

Both OT and NT writers of the Bible considered the Book of Enoch to be divinely inspired, and it is included in the Ethiopian Orthodox Bible which is actually 88 books.

If a book is mentioned, quoted, or alluded to is it worthy of study if it expands the understanding of the Bible and why Jesus Christ came to earth? The theory of the book of Enoch is that it was written prior to the book of Genesis and then before that was kept through verbal oral tradition. Our earliest manuscripts date to the 2nd to 3rd centuries BC but scholars believe this is not the original date of the Enochian canon. The first century Christians considered the book of Enoch as inspired canon if not authentic.

Thoughts?

Hi Allroses48

I don't care that much for what scholars say.  I don't depend on them for truth, and see many of them as the modern day scribes that Jesus warned us about.  The best way I found is to go straight to the Word of God to avoid all that traffic.

 

I guess you just have to read the book of Enoch for yourself and see if what he says is in tune with the spirit of God.  The only way to test this is to first have a love for the truth, and a good understanding of the Canon first. We also need to familiarise ourself with all the prophesies contained in the New and Old Testaments and their meanings.  Without this background, it is impossible to judge.

I havn't read all those books, only a few of them,  but this is what I know about Enoch.  He was taken up to heaven and shown more than any prophet who ever lived, and was sent back to give record to his sons.  I always thought that God was silent towards man before the flood, but after reading this I realised I was mistaken. 

Something else I've picked up from other books is that God was in communication with Adam and Eve even when they were kicked out of the garden and showed them how when one strays from God's word, it can affect us for the rest of our lives.  Adam and Eve, so full of sorrow, had many more lessons to learn regarding the ways of the Serpent who never gave them rest, and continued to tempt them every single day of their lives.  Even though they were never allowed to return to the garden, God often intervened and gave them counselling through all their falls, and saved them from the serpent many times. They repented and always prayed to God.  They will be brought back in the 1000 yr kingdom.

Through their third son "Seth", and his children, God was known to them, and they lived seperately from Cain's children and descendants.  But as time went by, Seth's descendants started mixing with Cain's children, and Enoch was chosen to bring many back to God and warn them of what was coming in their day (the flood), and also what was to come after the flood all the way until the Coming, and during the 1000 yr rest.

As Jesus was not born then, there was no mediator between man and God, so God spoke to Enoch through his angels, and sometimes directly.  Enoch passed all that he was shown to his son Methuselah and his children, and Methuselah to his son Lamech and his children, and Lamech to his son "NOAH".  Noah had all Enoch's writings, and they were preserved on the ark, for his descendants through Shem.  So the background knowledge of God, and Adam and Eve, and Cain and Abel and their children after them were all taught for their edification, ....lessons on what to do and what not to do, and most importantly to know their God, so full of mercy, and powerful to deliver from the enemy.

As many generations passed, Enoch's writings were passed down, but not to the majority.  But God, through Abraham's seed, chose Moses to reconcile the Hebrews back to him.  Moses was then given the law, and the record of Genesis, but only the basics.  Many details were left out, for it had to be simple and easy to follow.

But to God's special chosen, from the line of Seth, ie. Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and his sons, the words of Enoch were preserved so that it could reach us today, but you won't find much mentioned about this in the Canon, because God was not going to advertise it to all those who would later corrupt the bible.

Think of it like this.  Anyone can read the bible, but not every one can understand.  Only the holy spirit can give understanding, because God sees into the heart.  Understanding is a gift, and a little reward of encouragement for those who really love the Lord.  God is not going to give it to anyone, unless their spirit is right and has been feeding on his Word.  The book of Enoch works the same.  A little reward at the end of the day, for those who have hungered and fed on the scriptures, and kept away from the world.  Any one can read the book of Enoch, but understanding will not be given if the heart is not right.  Most who do not understand it, do not understand the prophesies, and cannot hear the spirit of the Lord talking in what Enoch recorded for us. 

They don't want us to read the book of Enoch, because there also is a lot of talk of the fallen angels and angels of God, and their names etc, and what they did to corrupt man and themselves.  The modern day "seducees" will do all they can to keep us from knowing the depths of Satan, and the modern day scribes will back them.

And the men of the world in high places who serve Lucifer do not want us to find out that the world has lied to us about the earth, the sun, the stars and the moon.  God goes into depth about his creation about how the sun and the moon and stars orbit "inside" the earth.  The sun and moon are alot closer to the earth than what they tell us. You will find out that the earth doesn't really spin as they told us.  Did you know that when God separated the waters, he also made a sea above the earth's canopy larger than the sea below?  And nothing can get through this canopy.  If you read Enoch, you will realise that man has not, and cannot travel outside the earth. There's a barrier put there by God, and the earth is unique, because it's made for man. Everything has been a great lie.  Nothing can get through that sea.  There are video's to prove that rockets cannot get through it, but explode..  some astronauts even slip up today and admit it.  So everything has been a lie since the beginning.  And that's what they don't want us to know, because many will lose jobs, and fundings cut, and most importantly, all these lies will play a big part in the end times when the great deception comes. 

Satan has lied from the beginning, and he doesn't stop.  He is the god of this world, and does whatever he can to keep him and his lies hidden.  His hand is strong on damaging the reputation of Enoch, but some of God's children will see through this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 12, 2017 by Sister

[daughterofGrace]

Forgive me, Sister, but you say you don't set much store by scholars and what they write, and then you say you have read a lot of extra-biblical information about Adam and Eve, etc. which you believe is true.  You appear to be contradicting yourself.

I disagree that Satan is trying to keep us from reading about Enoch because there are things there that he doesn't want us to know.  I think he WANTS us to read it because there is NO value in it and because he wants us to argue about it.  I have read the book and I can't see anything in it that God would want us to know.  If there were, it would be in the canon -- and it never was.  It was rejected, and rightfully so.

[simplejeff]

So many people have no idea how popular demons are - and/or how widespread and how much they directly influence in society.

 

 

[Wolf Bridges]

On 5/9/2017 at 0:41 PM, Allroses48 said:

To understand the Catholic and Protestant Bibles we must know what books the Biblical authors considered important and divinely inspired during the time they wrote the biblical manuscripts. Books outside the traditional 66 have been mentioned in the Bible in three different ways: by name, quotation, or alluded too. So what books did the biblical authors consider important? Here is a list:

1) The Book of Jasher

2) The Annals of Jehu

3) The Treatise of the book of Kings

4) The book of Records, Book of Chronicans of Ahasuerus

5) The Acts of Solomon

6) The Sayings of Hozai

7) The Chronicles of David

8) The Book of Wars of the Lord

9)The Chronicals of Samuel, Nathan, Gad

10) Samuels Book

11) The Prophecy of Ahijah the Shilonite

12) The Treatise of the Prophet Iddo

13) The Book of Enoch

Both OT and NT writers of the Bible considered the Book of Enoch to be divinely inspired, and it is included in the Ethiopian Orthodox Bible which is actually 88 books.

If a book is mentioned, quoted, or alluded to is it worthy of study if it expands the understanding of the Bible and why Jesus Christ came to earth? The theory of the book of Enoch is that it was written prior to the book of Genesis and then before that was kept through verbal oral tradition. Our earliest manuscripts date to the 2nd to 3rd centuries BC but scholars believe this is not the original date of the Enochian canon. The first century Christians considered the book of Enoch as inspired canon if not authentic.

Thoughts?

I haven't read the apocrypha at any length. I do know that Jesus did refer to Enoch in his teachings as did Paul. 

[SavedOnebyGrace]

16 minutes ago, daughterofGrace said:

Thanks so much for providing all of that, SavedonebyGrace.  I appreciate the trouble you have taken to post it.

I have this to say in response:

The Book of Enoch was NEVER at any time part of Hebrew Scripture.  When Jesus quoted Hebrew Scripture, he always said, "It is written . . . . " to show clearly that he was quoting it.  Did he say that for any of the above quotations that would indicate he was quoting the Book of Enoch?  Given that it was never part of the Tanakh, I'm thinking he didn't, but, of course, I would have to look them all up to be sure.

Secondly, these verses from Enoch are taken out of context.  It's important to read them in context to see if they mean what Jesus meant when he said something of a similar nature.  I have read through Enoch and can't see any parallels with its content.

Lastly, it isn't the general, superficial similarities that are important.  It's the extreme differences that constitute the reason why Enoch was never considered the Word of God.  It's a fantastical book about angels/demons (the names given are not found in the Bible, see chapter 6 of Enoch, and supposedly gives an account of the Nephilim) with offspring who are 450 feet tall.  Then there's information about judgment.

I haven't sat down to pick out all the things in the Book of Enoch that don't line up with Scripture, something I would gladly do had I more time.  But I trust that those who decided what was God-breathed Scripture and what wasn't were led by the Holy Spirit to make their decisions.  And they rejected Enoch.

An interesting topic, that's for sure!  Thanks for starting it, allroses.

Christians are divided on the Book of Enoch.  It certainly clears up any confusion who the Nephilim were and why/how the Earth was first judged by God, the state of Earth being described in Genesis 1:2.  Some cannot accept the truth of these scriptures.  But our salvation does not depend on a perfect understanding of the Bible.  I would not include 1 Enoch in the Protestant Canon.  But that doesn't mean there's not truth to be gained from it.  The commentator of Enoch I am currently reading points out the contradictions or errors in the translation with respect to Biblical truth.  2 and 3 Enoch, in all likelihood, have been written by others or just corrupted.

[Sister]

25 minutes ago, daughterofGrace said:

Forgive me, Sister, but you say you don't set much store by scholars and what they write, and then you say you have read a lot of extra-biblical information about Adam and Eve, etc. which you believe is true.  You appear to be contradicting yourself.

I disagree that Satan is trying to keep us from reading about Enoch because there are things there that he doesn't want us to know.  I think he WANTS us to read it because there is NO value in it and because he wants us to argue about it.  I have read the book and I can't see anything in it that God would want us to know.  If there were, it would be in the canon -- and it never was.  It was rejected, and rightfully so.

Hi daughterofGrace

That's fine.  What I mean about modern day scribe, is men writing books today about the bible, or those claiming to have some sort of authority over believers in laying out what is acceptable and what is not.  Needing us to go through "them" before we can go through God. They make their own laws as if God made them, and don't encourage us to search and make our own minds up, for they will do that for us.  I could of used the word Modern day Pharisees also.  Just like back then, they were always challenging the truth and held high positions.  The people looked up to them. 

 The "seducees" did not believe in fallen angels or angels of God, and did not believe in the resurrection.  They followed the law and concerned mainly with the temple and their customs.  So they are not concerned with spiritual things. 

Enoch was before the flood, so he is not a modern day scribe, but a very old one, and more than a scribe, ...for he was a prophet before the flood and taken up to all the levels of heaven.  The books of Adam and Eve were written before the flood also.  What we have today is not written today, but back then.

If you find no value in the book of Enoch then that's fine, it's your choice.  In regards to his prophecies, I could probably match every one to a scripture and find no contradiction.  But the things he speaks of regarding God's creation, how he made everything work together, and put his angels in charge of the sun, the moon, the winds, the stars, the lightning, the rain, the frost, the snow, ....absolutely everything, to hold all in it's place and positions so they don't lose their order is fascinating.  I never knew that before, but I can connect to Revelation when he commands the angels of the four winds. 

God has millions of angels, all designated to a particular duty.  They all have their stations.  They all sing hymns to the Lord and praise him constantly.  Have you ever wondered why the stars "twinkle?"  sending out vibrations?

Man has not found out all the wisdom in God's creation.  He likes to think he knows everything, but God says man knows very little about his creation in the sky.

 

 

[Sister]

God is showing Enoch how he sets the course of the sun. Everything is worked out exactly and kept to the laws of their order.  This has all been carefully planned out by our creator.  You will notice it's the sun that's constantly moving to give light, and not the earth orbiting the sun.

 

Section III.
The Book of the Heavenly Luminaries

.

[Chapter 72]

¹ The book of the courses of the luminaries of the heaven, the relations of each, according to their classes, their dominion and their seasons, according to their names and places of origin, and according to their months, which Uriel, the holy angel, who was with me, who is their guide, showed me; and he showed me all their laws exactly as they are, and how it is with regard to all the years of the world ² and unto eternity, till the new creation is accomplished which dureth till eternity.

And this is the first law of the luminaries: the luminary the Sun has its rising in the eastern portals of the heaven, ³ and its setting in the western portals of the heaven. And I saw six portals in which the sun rises, and six portals in which the sun sets and the moon rises and sets in these portals, and the leaders of the stars and those whom they lead: six in the east and six in the west, and all following each other ⁴ in accurately corresponding order: also many windows to the right and left of these portals.

And first there goes forth the great luminary, named the Sun, and his circumference is like the ⁵ circumference of the heaven, and he is quite filled with illuminating and heating fire. The chariot on which he ascends, the wind drives, and the sun goes down from the heaven and returns through the north in order to reach the east, and is so guided that he comes to the appropriate (lit. ' that ') portal and ⁶ shines in the face of the heaven. In this way he rises in the first month in the great portal, which ⁷ is the fourth [those six portals in the cast]. And in that fourth portal from which the sun rises in the first month are twelve window-openings, from which proceed a flame when they are opened in ⁸ their season.

When the sun rises in the heaven, he comes forth through that fourth portal  thirty, ⁹ mornings in succession, and sets accurately in the fourth portal in the west of the heaven. And during this period the day becomes daily longer and the night nightly shorter to the thirtieth ¹⁰ morning. On that day the day is longer than the night by a ninth part, and the day amounts exactly to ten parts and the night to eight parts. And the sun rises from that fourth portal, and sets in the fourth and returns to the fifth portal of the east thirty mornings, and rises from it and sets in the fifth ¹² portal. And then the day becomes longer by two parts and amounts to eleven parts, and the night ¹³ becomes shorter and amounts to seven parts. And it returns to the east and enters into the sixth ¹⁴ portal, and rises and sets in the sixth portal one-and-thirty mornings on account of its sign. On that day the day becomes longer than the night, and the day becomes double the night, and the day ¹⁵ becomes twelve parts, and the night is shortened and becomes six parts. And the sun mounts up to make the day shorter and the night longer, and the sun returns to the east and enters into the ¹⁶ sixth portal, and rises from it and sets thirty mornings. And when thirty mornings are accomplished, ¹⁷ the day decreases by exactly one part, and becomes eleven parts, and the night seven. And the sun goes forth from that sixth portal in the west, and goes to the east and rises in the fifth portal for ¹⁸thirty mornings, and sets in the west again in the fifth western portal. On that day the day decreases by two parts, and amounts to ten parts and the night to eight parts. And the sun goes forth from that fifth portal and sets in the fifth portal of the west, and rises in the fourth portal for one- ²⁰ and-thirty mornings on account of its sign, and sets in the west. On that day the day is equalized with the night, [and becomes of equal length], and the night amounts to nine parts and the day to ²¹ nine parts. And the sun rises from that portal and sets in the west, and returns to the east and rises ²²thirty mornings in the third portal and sets in the west in the third portal. And on that day the night becomes longer than the day, and night becomes longer than night, and day shorter than day till the thirtieth morning, and the night amounts exactly to ten parts and the day to eight ²³ parts. And the sun rises from that third portal and sets in the third portal in the west and returns to the east, and for thirty mornings rises ²⁴in the second portal in the east, and in like manner sets in the second portal in the west of the heaven. And on that day the night amounts to eleven ²⁵ parts and the day to seven parts. And the sun rises on that day from that second portal and sets in the west in the second portal, and returns to the east into the first portal for one-and-thirty ²⁶ mornings, and sets in the first portal in the west of the heaven. And on that day the night becomes longer and amounts to the double of the day: and the night amounts exactly to twelve parts and ²⁷ the day to six. And the sun has (therewith) traversed the divisions of his orbit and turns again on those divisions of his orbit, and enters that portal thirty mornings and sets also in the west ²⁸ opposite to it. And on that night has the night decreased in length by a ninth part, and the night ²⁹ has become eleven parts and the day seven parts. And the sun has returned and entered into the second portal in the east, and returns on those his divisions of his orbit for thirty mornings, rising ³⁰ and setting. And on that day the night decreases in length, and the night amounts to ten parts ³¹ and the day to eight. And on that day the sun rises from that portal, and sets in the west, and returns to the east, and rises in the third portal for one-and-thirty mornings, and sets in the west of the heaven. ³² On that day the night decreases and amounts to nine parts, and the day to nine parts, and the night ³³ is equal to the day and the year is exactly as to its days three hundred and sixty-four. And the length of the day and of the night, and the shortness of the day and of the night arise-through the course ³⁴ of the sun these distinctions are made (lit. ' they are separated '). So it comes that its course becomes ³⁵ daily longer, and its course nightly shorter. And this is the law and the course of the sun, and his return as often as he returns sixty times and rises, i.e. the great luminary which is named the sun, for ever and ever. And that which (thus) rises is the great luminary, and is so named according to ³⁷ its appearance, according as the Lord commanded. As he rises, so he sets and decreases not, and rests not, but runs day and night, and his light is sevenfold brighter than that of the moon; but as regards size they are both equal.

[other one]

12 hours ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

Source: Septuagint Origin

It is an error to say Jesus quoted from the Septuagint.  That it included copying errors and corruptions from other translations does not bode well for the inerrancy of the scriptures that Jesus would use.  This is nothing more than wishful thinking for some who want to elevate the Septuagint to a place it doesn't merit.

Just about everywhere I read says Jesus  quoted Hebrew only about 10% of the time.  So if there are errors where do we go for reality.