Ecumenism: "Why Can't We Be Friends?"

[Fidei Defensor]

11 minutes ago, Mike Mclees said:

I have nothing against Catholics just like I have nothing against those of other denominations. You say you want to build bridges between the denominations, but For what purpose. what are you wanting to achieve or create by doing so. 

 about holding off Radical Islam sound like the blind that held of the blind. Do You  think the the church of Rome is the true church. Do You know that the Roman church is corrupt and of the world today the same as it was since Constantine. 

 

 

I am doing what I have claimed from post 1, “creating dialouges and building relationships,” with those of different denominations. 

So you would rather have had the Catholics stand down and let us become The Western Ottoman Empire? Because its “blind that held the blind.” Catholics believe in same God who is a Trinity, they may have errors in soteriology, but they are not akin to Islam, another religion that denies the Doctrine of Trinity from the minarets and call to prayer.

Edited July 8, 2020 by Fidei Defensor

[Mike Mclees]

13 minutes ago, Fidei Defensor said:

I am doing what I have claimed from post 1, “creating dialouges and building relationships,” with those of different denominations. 

So you would rather have had the Catholics stand down and let us become The Western Ottoman Empire? Because its “blind that held the blind.” Catholics believe in same God who is a Trinity, they may have errors in soteriology, but they are not akin to Islam, another religion that denies the Doctrine of Trinity from the minarets and call to prayer.

Its been nice chatting with you. Be blessed

[Fidei Defensor]

I utterly disagree with this form of ecumenism: 

“Ecumenism can also be defined more broadly: “a movement that promotes worldwide unity among all religions through greater cooperation.” For example, a Christian priest may invite a Muslim imam to speak in his pulpit, or a church may get together with a Hindu temple to hold a joint prayer service. Defined this way, ecumenism is definitely wrong (Amen). We are not to be “yoked together with unbelievers” (2 Corinthians 6:14; see also Galatians 1:6–9). Light and darkness have no fellowship with each other.” (https://www.gotquestions.org/ecumenism-ecumenical.html) 

There can be no union or unity between different religions, there is only one way to God, Christ, “Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me” (John 14:6). 

Edited July 8, 2020 by Fidei Defensor

[Alive]

1 minute ago, Fidei Defensor said:

I utterly disagree with this form of ecumenism: 

“Ecumenism can also be defined more broadly: “a movement that promotes worldwide unity among all religions through greater cooperation.” For example, a Christian priest may invite a Muslim imam to speak in his pulpit, or a church may get together with a Hindu temple to hold a joint prayer service. Defined this way, ecumenism is definitely wrong (Amen). We are not to be “yoked together with unbelievers” (2 Corinthians 6:14; see also Galatians 1:6–9). Light and darkness have no fellowship with each other.” (https://www.gotquestions.org/ecumenism-ecumenical.html) 

There csn be no union or unity between different religions, there is only one way to God, Christ, “Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me” (John 14:6). 

Yup...the very definition of the Church assembling under the Headship of Christ as the Holy Spirit ministers to each ‘member’, makes that scenario absurd.

Perhaps an opportunity for evangelism, but not oneness.

very simple stuff.

[Fidei Defensor]

Just now, Alive said:

Yup...the very definition of the Church assembling under the Headship of Christ as the Holy Spirit ministers to each ‘member’, makes that scenario absurd.

Perhaps an opportunity for evangelism, but not oneness.

very simple stuff.

I think this defintion of ecumenism as interfaith is what causes such misunderstanding of ecumenism. If you say I am for “ecumenism” you have to be very clear you mean only the unity of the Body of Christ as Jesus desired, “I am not asking on behalf of them alone, but also on behalf of those who will believe in Me through their message, that all of them may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I am in You. May they also be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.” (John 17:20-21) 

I do believe as you say we should outreach to other religions via the evagelion, but we cannot be yoked to them, “Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness?” (1 Corinthians 6:14). 

[Alive]

1 hour ago, Fidei Defensor said:

I think this defintion of ecumenism as interfaith is what causes such misunderstanding of ecumenism. If you say I am for “ecumenism” you have to be very clear you mean only the unity of the Body of Christ as Jesus desired, “I am not asking on behalf of them alone, but also on behalf of those who will believe in Me through their message, that all of them may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I am in You. May they also be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.” (John 17:20-21) 

I do believe as you say we should outreach to other religions via the evagelion, but we cannot be yoked to them, “Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness?” (1 Corinthians 6:14). 

Amen...that was my point. The unity of the Body is One.

All else is potential. We must always remember that He wishes that none perish and be ready to see His work in a lost soul.

The New Man can’t be yoked to the old. For myself, I try to remember He is always the friend of the sinner...ready to gather such a one into the family. The enmity isn’t against the individual, but the sin. He suffered and died for the individual.

so many things occlude this simple Truth. Grace and Mercy because of Love.

[Fidei Defensor]

1 hour ago, Alive said:

Amen...that was my point. The unity of the Body is One.

All else is potential. We must always remember that He wishes that none perish and be ready to see His work in a lost soul.

The New Man can’t be yoked to the old. For myself, I try to remember He is always the friend of the sinner...ready to gather such a one into the family. The enmity isn’t against the individual, but the sin. He suffered and died for the individual.

so many things occlude this simple Truth. Grace and Mercy because of Love.

Your words do me great encouragement. 

I agree that Our Lord desires “that none should perish, but come to repentence.” (2 Peter 3:9).

 I believe so many in the various denominations hold the same views, and it is my hope that we can be strengthened together.  

[David1701]

9 hours ago, Fidei Defensor said:

Your words do me great encouragement. 

I agree that Our Lord desires “that none should perish, but come to repentence.” (2 Peter 3:9).

 I believe so many in the various denominations hold the same views, and it is my hope that we can be strengthened together.  

Context, context, context...

2 Pet. 3:8,9 (VW)

8 But, beloved, do not be unaware of this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slow concerning His promise, as some count slowness, but is longsuffering toward us, not purposing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

This is a wonderful promise, to God's beloved elect: God keeps his promises to us; he is longsuffering toward US, not having purposed any of us to perish but that all of us come to repentance; and this is exactly what happens!  Before we are saved, all the elect are just as sinful as anyone else, and, therefore, God suffers long with us, until the time comes to save us; and his long-suffering is a necessary part of that salvation, because, without it, we would die before being saved.

To proof-text verse 9, as you have done, is to turn this wonderful promise into hand-wringing wishful thinking, on God's part, as if he were unable to bring to pass what he has purposed.

Verse 15, in the same passage, confirms that verse 9 is a promise with certain fulfilment, not wishful thinking.

2 Pet. 3:15 (VW) and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you,

[Fidei Defensor]

5 hours ago, David1701 said:

Context, context, context...

2 Pet. 3:8,9 (VW)

8 But, beloved, do not be unaware of this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slow concerning His promise, as some count slowness, but is longsuffering toward us, not purposing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

This is a wonderful promise, to God's beloved elect: God keeps his promises to us; he is longsuffering toward US, not having purposed any of us to perish but that all of us come to repentance; and this is exactly what happens!  Before we are saved, all the elect are just as sinful as anyone else, and, therefore, God suffers long with us, until the time comes to save us; and his long-suffering is a necessary part of that salvation, because, without it, we would die before being saved.

To proof-text verse 9, as you have done, is to turn this wonderful promise into hand-wringing wishful thinking, on God's part, as if he were unable to bring to pass what he has purposed.

Verse 15, in the same passage, confirms that verse 9 is a promise with certain fulfilment, not wishful thinking.

2 Pet. 3:15 (VW) and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you,

Woah woah woah. I did not proof-text or go “into wishful thinkimg” it says, “He desires none should perish but all come to repentence.” That last part is the qualifier. Sometimes you don’t want to quote the whole passage because in the verse is enough context of its own. 

Edited July 9, 2020 by Fidei Defensor

[Fidei Defensor]

10 hours ago, Betha said:

You are right up to a point my friend and your intention is good. However there is a difference between being Friends with God/Christ who are perfect - or just with other sinful people who have a long standing reputation of resisting God.

Jesus is our Teacher come from Heaven to teach and correct US....and if people won't hear HIM they will not hear us  (ASSUMING we have the right thing to say)....so any attempt to create a happy relationship is futile for we are not Teachers but DISCIPLES/Learners, Apprentices,still children and Babes - IF INDEED we walk with Christ at all.....which is highly questionable - NOT walking WITH HIM 24/7. So what Truth or good thing can we pass on to others who are still in errors and lies ?  

Repentance, Correction and Conversion are first of all necessary for all to be 'conformed to the image of Christ and fit to teach...... before we can be of any real use and help to each other !

We know Christ. It isn’t hard to know. He desires to be known (epignosko, ginosko), “And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.” (John 17:3)

I read we are sealed upon believing and confessing, “because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved,” (Romans 10:9-10), “Anyone whi confesses Jesus as Son of God has God living them and they live in God,” (1 John 4:15), “and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith,” (Philippians 3:9), and “And this is the Will of my Father that everyone look to the Son and believe in Him and they shall have erernal life and I will raise them up at the last day.” (John 6:40). You are sealed with salvation when you confess Christ and believe in Him. Yes you must keep believing, but you are seales with the Holy Spirit (Ephensians 1:13). 

I believe Eternal Security, you can’t lose your salvation unless you weren’t really one of us, “They went out from us, but they did not belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. But their departure made it clear that none of them belonged to us.” (1 John  2:19).