Ecumenism: "Why Can't We Be Friends?"

[Fidei Defensor]

Refresher: 

“To clarify the goal of this thread I want to share the many types of Ecumenism and which specific version is what this thread is about:

"Ecumenism refers to efforts by Christians of different church traditions to develop closer relationships and better understandings.

The term is also often used to refer to efforts towards the visible and organic unity of different Christian churches in some form.

The terms ecumenism and ecumenical come from the Greek οἰκουμένη (oikoumene), which means "the whole inhabited world", and was historically used with specific reference to the Roman Empire.[2] The ecumenical vision comprises both the search for the visible unity of the Church (Ephesians 4:3) and the "whole inhabited earth" (Matthew 24:14) as the concern of all Christians.

In Christianity the qualification ecumenical is originally (and still) used in terms such as "ecumenical council" and "Ecumenical Patriarch" in the meaning of pertaining to the totality of the larger Church (such as the Catholic Church or the Orthodox Church) rather than being restricted to one of its constituent local churches or dioceses. Used in this original sense, the term carries no connotation of re-uniting the historically separated Christian denominations, but presumes a unity of local congregations in a worldwide communion.

Historically, the word was originally used in the context of large ecumenical councils that were organized under the auspices of Roman Emperors to clarify matters of Christian theology and doctrine. These "Ecumenical Councils" brought together bishops from around the inhabited world (such as, οἰκουμένη) as they knew it at the time. There were a total of seven ecumenical councils accepted by both Eastern Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism held before the Great Schism. Thus, the modern meaning of the world ecumenical and ecumenism derives from this pre-modern sense of Christian unity, and the impulse to recreate this unity again.

There are a variety of different expectations of what that Christian unity looks like, how it is brought about, what ecumenical methods ought to be engaged, and what both short- and long-term objectives of the ecumenical movement should be. Ecumenism and nondenominational or postdenominational movements are not necessarily the same thing. While some of these can be ecumenical in intent, normally nondenominationalism seeks no common organizing principle nor works toward the unity of Christians." (Wikipedia)

[frienduff thaylorde]

On ‎5‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 2:25 PM, Davida said:

Not exactly what you said:   " Here we celebrate our simarities and show respect for differences and even desire to inderstand them and celebrate them, rather than fight over Eucharist views, we share them without judgement and enjoy the conversation over the different views.

j"Celebrate & delight in our differences."  I don't want to partake in heretical doctrines and celebrate them.   

Davida,   can you see the same identical message in fiedis unity as this unity even rome and emergent and others speak of .   ITS FROM THE SAME PLAY BOOK.

Called HOW to deceive folks into thinking its all good .    Or words to that effect .      YOU SEEN IT , didn't ya .  SAME language as brian McLaren , rick warren , the pope .

I MEAN its the same spirit in this .       

[frienduff thaylorde]

The more i see them responses dear fidie the more i am seeing the playbook at work .      You slipping .    See i went back and have done some reading on your responses to folks

and the more you talk or explain ,   the more that cat is showing its face in the bag .   This is a very sad day for me .    I am so sad for you fidie .     Whether or not you believe that .

My heart is very heavy for you .    but at the same time ,  cant just let wrong agendas take hold anywhere .    

[seeking the lost]

20 hours ago, Davida said:

I don't think they will be in the group that are denouncing the reformation though. 

You do understand that the Catholic Church is no the same as the Roman Catholic Church?  The Catholic Church of which I speak is the invisible Church made up of every nationality and tongue that confess the name of Christ.  It may include some of the Roman Catholics.

 

[Fidei Defensor]

“Today, most believers are segregated and isolated in their church or in their home. If believers accept Paul's directive to seek out other believers and greet them, the Lord will have a way to build up the assembly, His body. Although there are so many churches and Christian groups today, believers can still heed Paul's command to go and greet fellow believers in other groups. In God's eyes all of His children are in one family, in the one body of Christ. As such, believers should not acknowledge any division.

Henry Hon, ONE: Unfolding God's Eternal Purpose from House to House

Tags: body-of-christ, church-unity,community, ecumenical-movement,ecumenism, most-segregated-hour-in-america, segregation-in-church, unity

like

 

So true. As long as we remain isolated in our one denomination or church we won’t get to meet other Christ followers who believe and confess the Truth (Romans 10:9-10). Henry Hon captures the very goal and heart of this thread: 

[Fidei Defensor]

21 hours ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

The more i see them responses dear fidie the more i am seeing the playbook at work .      You slipping .    See i went back and have done some reading on your responses to folks

and the more you talk or explain ,   the more that cat is showing its face in the bag .   This is a very sad day for me .    I am so sad for you fidie .     Whether or not you believe that .

My heart is very heavy for you .    but at the same time ,  cant just let wrong agendas take hold anywhere .    

My agenda is in the original post.: To build relationships between denominations. Worth Christian Forms is non-denominational and  allows all people from every kind of church to come and speak here. I for one encourage this exchange between brothers and sisters in Christ across denom-lines. 

[Fidei Defensor]

21 hours ago, Davida said:

 Yes it is the same message and same ole drum beat.  Its the siren call to put aside our doctrinal differences and join the One World Church because "don't we all love Jesus???"   Kind of reminds me of  a remaking of the tower of babel and we know how GOD viewed that.  

Which message is that Davida? Since there are seven official kinds of ecumenism  and many more and the one I am advocating is both Biblical and simply to foster “relationships across denominational lines,”: “Ecumenism refers to efforts by Christians of different church traditions to develop closer relationships and better understandings.“ (Wikipedia). 

Worthy Christian Forums is non-denominational and invites everyone from their respective churches to speak here, so the ecumenism I am putting forth is actually in harmony with the purpose of these forums; allowing us to come together, relate to each other, debate civility and with love of Christ, and unite on essentials like Romans 10:9-10, John 6:40, Phillipians 3:9, and beyond. 

Edited August 29, 2018 by Fidei Defensor

[Fidei Defensor]

5 hours ago, seeking the lost said:

You do understand that the Catholic Church is no the same as the Roman Catholic Church?  The Catholic Church of which I speak is the invisible Church made up of every nationality and tongue that confess the name of Christ.  It may include some of the Roman Catholics.

 

Well said seeking the lost. There is remnant in every denomination, and all who do Romans are saved, “If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.” (Romans 10:9-10). 

[Heleadethme]

55 minutes ago, Fidei Defensor said:

Which message is that Davida? Since there are seven official kinds of ecumenism  and many more and the one I am advocating is both Biblical and simply to foster “relationships across denominational lines,”: “Ecumenism refers to efforts by Christians of different church traditions to develop closer relationships and better understandings.“ (Wikipedia). 

Worthy Christian Forums is non-denominational and invites everyone from their respective churches to speak here, so the ecumenism I am putting forth is actually in harmony with the purpose of these forums; allowing us to come together, relate to each other, debate civility and with love of Christ, and unite on essentials like Romans 10:9-10, John 6:40, Phillipians 3:9, and beyond. 

"foster relationships across denominational lines"..............since denominations are not the will of God to begin with, then I don't understand how it can be His will to foster relationships across those lines, as much as it may seemeth right to the carnal mind.   True Christian unity between believers needs no help from us (the flesh profits nothing)......since any true believers who encounter each other already "have" fellowship with one another as the bible says regardless of where they worship.  It serves no purpose in trying to get "denominations" to have a "relationship" together if the majority of their members are not true believers to start with (apart from the remnant)....and again since those denominations themselves are not God's will.   They are houses that He didn't build.

If we stay with the simple instructions of the bible and hear what the Spirit is saying to the church.....then we will understand that God's will is for the remnant of true believers to "come out of" the denominations and follow Him.  Judgment is beginning with His house in these last days....He is giving the apostate churches over to destruction, much like the Temple was destroyed in 70 AD and not one stone was left on another as Jesus prophesied.  Those who are His have already been or are being led out by Him before it's too late. 

Isa 52:11-12

Depart ye, depart ye, go ye out from thence, touch no unclean thing; go ye out of the midst of her; be ye clean, that bear the vessels of the LORD.

For ye shall not go out with haste, nor go by flight: for the LORD will go before you; and the God of Israel will be your rereward.

2Co 6:17

Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you

Heb 13:13

Let us go forth therefore unto Him outside the camp, bearing His reproach.

Rev 18:4

And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Edited August 29, 2018 by Heleadethme

[Fidei Defensor]

18 minutes ago, Heleadethme said:

"foster relationships across denominational lines"..............since denominations are not the will of God to begin with, then I don't understand how it can be His will to foster relationships across those lines, as much as it may seemeth right to the carnal mind.   True Christian unity between believers needs no help from us (the flesh profits nothing)......since any true believers who encounter each other already "have" fellowship with one another as the bible says regardless of where they worship.  It serves no purpose in trying to get "denominations" to have a "relationship" together if the majority of their members are not true believers to start with (apart from the remnant)....and again since those denominations themselves are not God's will.   They are houses that He didn't build.

If we stay with the simple instructions of the bible and hear what the Spirit is saying to the church.....then we will understand that God's will is for the remnant of true believers to "come out of" the denominations and follow Him.  Judgment is beginning with His house in these last days....He is giving the apostate churches over to destruction, much like the Temple was destroyed in 70 AD and not one stone was left on another as Jesus prophesied.  Those who are His have already been or are being led out by Him before it's too late. 

Isa 52:11-12

Depart ye, depart ye, go ye out from thence, touch no unclean thing; go ye out of the midst of her; be ye clean, that bear the vessels of the LORD.

For ye shall not go out with haste, nor go by flight: for the LORD will go before you; and the God of Israel will be your rereward.

2Co 6:17

Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you

Heb 13:13

Let us go forth therefore unto Him outside the camp, bearing His reproach.

Rev 18:4

And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Because in those denominational lines are Christ saved Christian brothers and sisters. You actually helping articulate the point of ecumenism, denominations are the divisions, but Christ is one:

“10 I appeal to you, brothers and sisters,[a] in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another in what you say and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly united in mind and thought. 11 My brothers and sisters, some from Chloe’s household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. 12 What I mean is this: One of you says, “I follow Paul”; another, “I follow Apollos”; another, “I follow Cephas[b]”; still another, “I follow Christ.”

13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul? 14 I thank God that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 so no one can say that you were baptized in my name. 16 (Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don’t remember if I baptized anyone else.)17 For Christ did not send me to baptize,but to preach the gospel—not with wisdomand eloquence, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.” (1 Corinthians 1:1-17) 

and, 

“12 There is one body, but it has many parts. But all its many parts make up one body. It is the same with Christ. 13 We were all baptized by one Holy Spirit. And so we are formed into one body. It didn’t matter whether we were Jews or Gentiles, slaves or free people. We were all given the same Spirit to drink. 14 So the body is not made up of just one part. It has many parts.

15 Suppose the foot says, “I am not a hand. So I don’t belong to the body.” By saying this, it cannot stop being part of the body. 16 And suppose the ear says, “I am not an eye. So I don’t belong to the body.” By saying this, it cannot stop being part of the body. 17 If the whole body were an eye, how could it hear? If the whole body were an ear, how could it smell? 18 God has placed each part in the body just as he wanted it to be. 19 If all the parts were the same, how could there be a body? 20 As it is, there are many parts. But there is only one body.

21 The eye can’t say to the hand, “I don’t need you!” The head can’t say to the feet, “I don’t need you!” 22 In fact, it is just the opposite. The parts of the body that seem to be weaker are the ones we can’t do without. 23 The parts that we think are less important we treat with special honor. The private parts aren’t shown. But they are treated with special care. 24 The parts that can be shown don’t need special care. But God has put together all the parts of the body. And he has given more honor to the parts that didn’t have any. 25 In that way, the parts of the body will not take sides. All of them will take care of one another. 26 If one part suffers, every part suffers with it. If one part is honored, every part shares in its joy.

27 You are the body of Christ. Each one of you is a part of it.” (1 Corinthians 12:12-27). 

Ecumenism is to restore the unity Paul is preaching and to fulfill the wishes of Jesus our Lord: 

“20 “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— 23 I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.” (John 17:20-23). 

Denominations as you said, was not how it should be, but it is the reality. We must respect the differences, and build unity in relationship in Christ and with each other., “Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength,” (Matthew 22:36-39), and “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” (John 13:34-35)

Edited August 29, 2018 by Fidei Defensor