Did Paul Have a Woman as His Pastor? (Charisma News)

[SchmaltzWeasel]

3 minutes ago, Yowm said:

Scripture says otherwise than culture. 

Paul trandscends local situations and culture when he takes his argument all the way back to Adam and Eve. 

Co laborers and co workers was not my point, but for a woman to have authority over a man in spiritual matters is my point.

If your point is to impart that women are not to be equal in power to men or to be called to preach by God, or in authority at all, even in the church, you're wrong. 

 

Scripture does speak otherwise to the culture of the time. If you knew the culture of the time you'd realize you just agreed that God overthrew culture of the time and would and still does call women into his service. Men who have a problem with powerful women are the problem. They're also the ignorant who are unaware that likely the lawmakers in their state are women!  And a woman recently ran for office. Had she won not a single Christian man would have a leg to stand on claiming God would never put women in power over men. 

It doesn't matter that you don't agree women are called by God you realize. That God knows what he's doing when he calls women is what matters. Thinking male prejudice makes God in that image and likeness is a huge transgression of God's grace and spirit. "God is a gender bigot!" Is something Satan would hope to get us to believe. Jesus proved that could never be true. If he was in line with the culture of the time he wouldn't have had Mary and other women traveling with him. That we're told there were 12 disciples that were men is an example of the culture of the time when women apostles were omitted from the writings. God is higher than the lowest thought that gives life to discrimination. 

Land owners in the United States once owned people as slaves. They used the argument God ordained it. That was wrong too. Peoples worth is less or greater than? And that makes it OK to discriminate against them? Hardly. 

[SchmaltzWeasel]

10 minutes ago, Yowm said:

Again, I wasn't addressing co-laborers but women having spiritual AUTHORITY OVER  a man.

Paul gives a crystal clear reason which you haven't addressed, a reason that trandscends culture and takes us all the way back to Adam and Eve. Theological liberals overuse the cultural explanation.

1 Timothy 2:11-14 KJV
[11] Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. [12] But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. [13] For Adam was first formed, then Eve. [14] And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

 

 Dare to read the article. 

 Paul was talking to his churches. And if you even bothered to read the excerpted part of the article I pasted here you'd know you're wrong again. 

God didn't tell Paul that women are less than. 

And Paul doesn't speak for God in his epistles to the churches he had founded. He's speaking to manage them, as he clarifies in numerous instances in those letters. Stating quite clearly for all who care to read, not God but "I" say to you. 

Imagine God sending his son to save the world. And that includes men and women both. And then that same God says, but of course I'll never call a woman to deliver my words, or the good news of my son, because you know, she's a lowly woman! When he called her by name to be saved, but he wouldn't call her to be chosen to spread the good news that saved her? Nonsense. 

It's like a bad bumper sticker. "My God is a Gender Bigot!"  Bigotry is a sin. But God sins? No. That's men that use the scriptures and twist them so as to not renounce their own gender bigotry. I have a feeling God would not be amused. 

Time will tell. 

[SchmaltzWeasel]

2 minutes ago, Yowm said:

Care to address what Paul is referring to in 1Tim 2?

Our fellowship and source of truth is found in Scripture, not articles of man.

I never said women are 'less than' (maybe you don't read what I have written)  but they have different roles and pastoring men is not one of those roles. 

Paul's words, being inspired by the Holy Spirit, sure enough speak for God to the Churches he has founded. In the 1Tim 2 passage, he never says 'not God, but I say to you'.

Sigh, no one is saying women can't be missionaries, evangelists, teach other women and children etc. Don't need to bring up the 'bigot' card.

You seem to do that a lot. Someone doesn't agree with the prejudice you impart in your argument and you hound them with, care to address.... 

No. Deal with what's written or get over it. God isn't a bigot. 

 

Acts 2:17 “‘And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams;

 

Acts 21:9 He had four unmarried daughters, who prophesied.

God gave women in those passages his message to deliver to those meant to hear it. But he wouldn't call a woman to preach? 

Pastoring then was different than it is now. As most of us know. It wasn't someone standing at a podium reading from the Bible that didn't exist yet. It was the called of God walking or riding a horse or donkey and speaking in the open , because doing so in a Hebrew temple would get them killed, which happened anyway as we know to all the male apostles save one, and delivering God's word. Talking about Jesus and salvation. 

A woman commanded the male apostles to follow her to find the tomb where they'd laid Jesus empty. Oops, there she goes, having authority over men. Which in those days would not have happened. A woman would not have told men who were the students of a rabbi what to do and those men would have done it. 

Jesus lived the example and came to overturn the prejudices of his time. Part of why he called the law keepers a den of vipers. 

I addressed the scripture. I don't care if you can't accept what they actually say. Care to stop insisting God is a bigot? 

[PlanetChee]

2 hours ago, SchmaltzWeasel said:

I just found your post Chee.

I wonder how many went to the Hyatt book link at Amazon? The look inside feature is great.https://www.amazon.com/Paul-Women-Church-Eddie-Hyatt/dp/1888435569/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&qid=1495420871&sr=8-1&keywords=Eddie+Hyatt&linkCode=sl1&tag=httpwwweddieh-20&linkId=995db4821219594d2f12e612b4ab898d

The authors, husband and wife, are all about bringing the truth of the gospels forward so as to restore to the church Biblical equality. That's a great endeavor being there today is a committment to the sin of sexual bigotry by many in the church. 

Don't let that be obstructed by the facts that speak otherwise. As you can see Chee. I know. Sad isn't it. People that need to see a wall around people of Christ will form any division even corrupting the words of God's Spirit in order to maintain. 
Do you subscribe to Charisma? 

This is important to share here from the article you've posted. Because I don't think anyone read it. Those opposed to Biblical equality aren't up to being proven wrong I have found in my travels. Looks to be the same here too. Sadly enough. Don't be discouraged. As long as God knows he calls women into his service who cares about anyone else thinking that's not possible? And what nerve! 

 

 

http://www.charismanews.com/opinion/65047-did-paul-have-a-woman-as-his-pastor

What About Women Being Silent?

"But," some will protest, "What about Paul's calls for female silence and submission in 1 Corinthians 14:34 and 1 Timothy 2:11-12?

A careful examination of those passages reveal that Paul is responding to local situations in Corinth and Ephesus, and his statements were never meant to be applied across the board to all women and all churches everywhere.

To make those two passages the controlling passages concerning women leads to the denial of the fact that Paul recognizes numerous women preachers and teachers who are his coworkers and fellow ministers in the gospel. These include Phoebe, Priscilla, Junia, Tryphena, Tryphosa and those women in Philippi whom he says, "labored with me in the gospel" (Phil. 4:3).

Conclusion

Yes, Phoebe was a respected Christian leader in the early church with qualities we would expect in a modern-day pastor. The evidence indicates that she may well have functioned in a pastoral-type ministry toward Paul at some point in his life. 

This article was derived from Dr. Eddie Hyatt's latest book, Paul, Women and Church, available from Amazon and his website at eddiehyatt.com.

Dr. Eddie Hyatt is an author, historian and biblical scholar. His books on church history, church order and spiritual awakening are available from Amazon and his website at eddiehyatt.com.

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Thank you for pasting that here. That has been an argument put forward by those opposed to God's calling women to serve. If you too look around you'll see there are a lot of threads already discussing this subject. I didn't know how many when I thought this Charisma News article would be informative. 

Which it is. Just not to those who are opposed to God calling women into his service. But that's OK because it is God's call not theirs.  

Blessings, 

 

[enoob57]

 

On ‎5‎/‎29‎/‎2017 at 9:10 PM, PlanetChee said:

No, we don't have to accept all the scriptures as written in order to recognize the scriptures in that article exist. 

The whole council of God is from Genesis thru Revelation... and yes you need do this

2 Timothy 2:14 (KJV)

[14] Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.

[15] Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

2 Timothy 3:15 (KJV)

[15] And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

[17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

so ignoring any portion or demeaning the importance of the whole must be according to God not perfect...

2 hours ago, SchmaltzWeasel said:

If your point is to impart that women are not to be equal in power to men or to be called to preach by God, or in authority at all, even in the church, you're wrong. 

 

Scripture does speak otherwise to the culture of the time. If you knew the culture of the time you'd realize you just agreed that God overthrew culture of the time and would and still does call women into his service. Men who have a problem with powerful women are the problem. They're also the ignorant who are unaware that likely the lawmakers in their state are women!  And a woman recently ran for office. Had she won not a single Christian man would have a leg to stand on claiming God would never put women in power over men. 

It doesn't matter that you don't agree women are called by God you realize. That God knows what he's doing when he calls women is what matters. Thinking male prejudice makes God in that image and likeness is a huge transgression of God's grace and spirit. "God is a gender bigot!" Is something Satan would hope to get us to believe. Jesus proved that could never be true. If he was in line with the culture of the time he wouldn't have had Mary and other women traveling with him. That we're told there were 12 disciples that were men is an example of the culture of the time when women apostles were omitted from the writings. God is higher than the lowest thought that gives life to discrimination. 

Land owners in the United States once owned people as slaves. They used the argument God ordained it. That was wrong too. Peoples worth is less or greater than? And that makes it OK to discriminate against them? Hardly. 

Your whole of reasoning greater lesser by placement of duty is moot by God being the least and greatest among us...

1 hour ago, SchmaltzWeasel said:

You seem to do that a lot. Someone doesn't agree with the prejudice you impart in your argument and you hound them with, care to address.... 

No. Deal with what's written or get over it. God isn't a bigot. 

 

Acts 2:17 “‘And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams;

 

Acts 21:9 He had four unmarried daughters, who prophesied.

God gave women in those passages his message to deliver to those meant to hear it. But he wouldn't call a woman to preach? 

Pastoring then was different than it is now. As most of us know. It wasn't someone standing at a podium reading from the Bible that didn't exist yet. It was the called of God walking or riding a horse or donkey and speaking in the open , because doing so in a Hebrew temple would get them killed, which happened anyway as we know to all the male apostles save one, and delivering God's word. Talking about Jesus and salvation. 

A woman commanded the male apostles to follow her to find the tomb where they'd laid Jesus empty. Oops, there she goes, having authority over men. Which in those days would not have happened. A woman would not have told men who were the students of a rabbi what to do and those men would have done it. 

Jesus lived the example and came to overturn the prejudices of his time. Part of why he called the law keepers a den of vipers. 

I addressed the scripture. I don't care if you can't accept what they actually say. Care to stop insisting God is a bigot? 

Lucifer would not hold the place God had given to him but rebelled... The Spirit is not about who's who or where's where but Lord what will You have me do with this given to me that will please You! That is why He has written it all down called the Scriptures and in these we are to follow to gain a renewed mind that is able to be used by God!

[enoob57]

7 minutes ago, PlanetChee said:

Thank you for pasting that here. That has been an argument put forward by those opposed to God's calling women to serve. If you too look around you'll see there are a lot of threads already discussing this subject. I didn't know how many when I thought this Charisma News article would be informative. 

Which it is. Just not to those who are opposed to God calling women into his service. But that's OK because it is God's call not theirs.  

Blessings, 

 

Until one learns to be submissive to God's Word and let it do the guiding;  we'll be all caught up in what does not matter like the sexist drivel that flows out of a rebellious heart toward God...

[PlanetChee]

1 minute ago, enoob57 said:

Until one learns to be submissive to God's Word and let it do the guiding;  we'll be all caught up in what does not matter like the sexist drivel that flows out of a rebellious heart toward God...

Yes, but the sexist drivel at this point doesn't realize itself. And that fact that it is a repeating sin is a tragedy for those sinners who claim Christ. 

[PlanetChee]

10 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

 

The whole council of God is from Genesis thru Revelation... and yes you need do this

2 Timothy 2:14 (KJV)

[14] Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.

[15] Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

2 Timothy 3:15 (KJV)

[15] And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

[17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

so ignoring any portion or demeaning the importance of the whole must be according to God not perfect...

Your whole of reasoning greater lesser by placement of duty is moot by God being the least and greatest among us...

Lucifer would not hold the place God had given to him but rebelled... The Spirit is not about who's who or where's where but Lord what will You have me do with this given to me that will please You! That is why He has written it all down called the Scriptures and in these we are to follow to gain a renewed mind that is able to be used by God!

And those women who have been in service to God leading churches, missionary work, and anything else God calls them to are in his service. Because God is using them to help save the world from the sin that damns. 

It is almost if not idolatrous that there is a desire to make God into the image of a fallen mind that see's division by gender in the church. It will quote Paul to forward that false teaching, but ignores Paul when he says there is no male or female, we are all one in Christ Jesus. 

Cherry picking verses to make God's word comport with gender bigotry is literally a damned shame. And as I said, it is God's call, not anyone elses. Those who would think to say every woman serving God as pastors and other roles he's called them to are wrong are to be prayed for. Because they are not only wrong but calling God wrong for having called those women over the centuries to serve. 

That's a hubris that does rightly sound like what you recalled into this thread. Lucifer himself. He knew better than God too. He was very wrong. As he found out when his pride went too far. 

[enoob57]

8 minutes ago, PlanetChee said:

Yes, but the sexist drivel at this point doesn't realize itself. And that fact that it is a repeating sin is a tragedy for those sinners who claim Christ. 

So you do not see the correlation of satan being the covering cherub and not wanting to remain there but to become God~ to that of the fact that man was created for God and the woman for man but the woman wanted to get between God and man and do the leading of man to God? 

[enoob57]

I have also notice the homosexuals use the bigot campaign in their push for what they feel in their ownselves as right also   Let God have the authority and return to His Word....