wingnut- Posted June 18, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 39 Topic Count: 101 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,673 Content Per Day: 1.31 Reputation: 7,358 Days Won: 67 Joined: 04/22/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted June 18, 2017 2 minutes ago, iamlamad said: For sure no one ELSE can snatch us. He holds us very securely: but He will allow anyone to leave if they desire. God will not force any human to serve Him. Do you know why no one can snatch us? The word "elect" should come to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted June 18, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.08 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted June 18, 2017 1 hour ago, wingnut- said: You're still trying to derail this thread because you cannot justify your claim. This thread is about Psalm 27:5, try addressing the topic at hand rather than avoiding it. If you have not come to grips with Psalms 27:5 yet, I don't think there is much hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted June 18, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.08 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted June 18, 2017 On 6/16/2017 at 9:46 AM, warrior12 said: Want to interject a question here. Don't you think God can shield all, everyone of his children in the tribulation period and not one hair would be touched. Is that possible ?. He did with the three Hebrews boys in the fire that the Babylonian king sent them too. Why can't he not protect that are his own, as he said he would . Men think in regards to their limitations, with God there is none. Even though, let say saints are killed in the tribulation period, aren't you destined for eternal life anyway, why the fear. Did not the Lord say many times to "Fear not', then again it is natural for man to do so as it is his nature. No, God will not be able to, because His word is out on this subject: the saints will be overcome. This is the word of God for this period of time. It is one verse Christians can put their faith in: they will be overcome. Instead of suffering terrible thirst, just turn yourself in. It will be much better. "He said He would?" Not during the days of Great tribulation. He said the saints would be overcome. (I was sure I already answered this, but I could not find an answer.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingnut- Posted June 18, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 39 Topic Count: 101 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,673 Content Per Day: 1.31 Reputation: 7,358 Days Won: 67 Joined: 04/22/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted June 18, 2017 9 minutes ago, iamlamad said: If you have not come to grips with Psalms 27:5 yet, I don't think there is much hope. I have, I know without a doubt that this Psalm is not speaking of things in heaven, it is obvious to anyone who reads the whole thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingnut- Posted June 18, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 39 Topic Count: 101 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,673 Content Per Day: 1.31 Reputation: 7,358 Days Won: 67 Joined: 04/22/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted June 18, 2017 1 minute ago, Davida said: Wingnut , that is my take also. I believe David is talking about during his time fleeing Saul and I believe it is prophetic of the time when the house of Israel is surrounded and flees into the wilderness. I agree 100% with that davida. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warrior12 Posted June 18, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 54 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,428 Content Per Day: 0.88 Reputation: 1,516 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/05/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted June 18, 2017 15 hours ago, iamlamad said: It is NOT possible because His word is already out and He is not changing it! He has said that the saints will be overcome. What part of overcome is hard to understand? Who said anything about fear? We are trying to understand the word of God and His intent in the scriptures. Yes, OF COURSE those who lose their head will go to heaven, if they lose it for the right reason. But what happens before that? Have you ever been very thirsty, like being in a desert all day without water? Thirst can become a very powerful motivator. How many will take the mark just to get water? This is PRESSURE, and why Jesus called these the days of great tribulation. His plan is that we His children escape those days. Many will not. They simply will not believe Luke 21:36. And others will not believe in Jesus until it is too late and they have missed the first train out. If you read into the post, you would see it is really a hypothetical question. The point being, God is able to save whomever, wherever and in all circumstances. Do you control destiny. Why would as some say, some would be saved in the tribulation period. Is God a partial God. No, there are some things that we just don't know and it is only in the masters hand. We as believers are to trust in God and keep the faith and do the work of an evangelist and let the chips fall where they maybe. Your statement of the thirst analogy to take the mark of the beast does not hold water, as those sealed with the Holy Spirit cannot be marked. Did not Jesus said in Matt 24, some would be killed even before the tribulation period, so therefore where is the escape there. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows. 9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. 10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted June 18, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.08 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted June 18, 2017 3 hours ago, inchrist said: Nope, neither Paul or John talk about God hidding you away. Your notion, of hidden away comes from psalm 27, which in context has nothing to do with a rapture at all. You don't read John 14 and 1 Thes. The way I do. I also like Isaiah 26: 19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. 20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast. 21 For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain. Both pretrib and posttrib knows Jesus is coming to punish the world for sin. Pretrib knows the heart of God is to take us out of the world while His wrath is poured out. Posttrib does not believe this. Notice the context here in Isaiah: dead men are raised. It is resurrection time. It is the time the Lord comes to punish the world. And at the same time, it is time to remove the saints. This is the end times in a nutshell. I believe these "chambers" or inner rooms are speaking of heaven. Of course posttribbers would not. I know God is not going to set any appointments for me with His wrath. In other words, I won't be here when Wrath comes. And this is exactly what Paul teaches us and John shows us in Rev. 7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted June 18, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.08 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted June 18, 2017 7 hours ago, warrior12 said: If you read into the post, you would see it is really a hypothetical question. The point being, God is able to save whomever, wherever and in all circumstances. Do you control destiny. Why would as some say, some would be saved in the tribulation period. Is God a partial God. No, there are some things that we just don't know and it is only in the masters hand. We as believers are to trust in God and keep the faith and do the work of an evangelist and let the chips fall where they maybe. Your statement of the thirst analogy to take the mark of the beast does not hold water, as those sealed with the Holy Spirit cannot be marked. Did not Jesus said in Matt 24, some would be killed even before the tribulation period, so therefore where is the escape there. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows. 9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. 10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. Sorry, but those sealed by the Holy Spirit as in born again will be taken out on the first load: i.e. the pretrib rapture. Only a remnant will be left: new believers and those left behind. Those 144,000 that are sealed are taken out at the midpoint, so they will be in heaven with the Bride during the last half of the week. So WHO IS IT that will be thirsty? It will be those left behind. The two witnesses with stop the rain. God will turn all fresh water into blood. Why do you think Jesus mentioned a drink of water at the sheep and goat judgment? Water is going to be very scarce, and the only water fit to drink must be purchased. But without the mark, no buying allowed. So my argument does hold water: only it will be water turned to blood. All through the church age, there have been martyrs. There was no escape then, for it was not God's wrath. In case you missed it, God is not angry with His church! Martyrs come from the hatred of Satan against God and God's people on earth. Satan is the god of this present world, and will continue to be until the 7th trumpet sounds - at least 3.5 + years into our future. We live in a lost world run by Satan. But during the last half of the week, it will be a world run by Satan PLUS God's wrath poured out. The Bride will not be here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted June 18, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.08 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted June 18, 2017 2 hours ago, inchrist said: Nothing about hidden in heaven in isaiah either. Where did Jesus go to build houses for us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted June 19, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.08 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted June 19, 2017 19 hours ago, inchrist said: Ok let me get this straight....God is going to rapture you before the wrath, then declare martial law in heaven by which you are to shut your mansion doors and hide in your mansion in heaven until God is finished with his wrath in a completely different location in a completely different plane of existence to that of heaven? Do i dare ask if we have bunkers in our mansions in heaven? It is a metaphor! I think anywhere in heaven will be a safe place. But you are correct: the rapture will most certainly come before His Wrath is poured out. And we can be SURE He is not angry with His church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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