criterion for ministry

[creativemechanic]

i always wondered. Seeing as nooone is prefect but yet you still dont want anyone with any lifestyle picking up a ministry, how do you determine whos applicable and who isnt?

[Swords99]

1 hour ago, creativemechanic said:

i always wondered. Seeing as nooone is prefect but yet you still dont want anyone with any lifestyle picking up a ministry, how do you determine whos applicable and who isnt?

Could you elaborate?

[Swords99]

Just now, Yowm said:

Looks like a few stones were being lobbed at the pastor. 

1Tim 3 gives some general guidelines for ministry in the Word.

Teachers of children should also be held to a high standard because children are more impressionable than adults and can easily take in faulty teaching.

In the church my wife was attending, the pastor insisted my wife have a background check and fingerprinting done before he would OK her being youth group leader.

[Swords99]

Just now, Yowm said:

Today, that may not be a bad idea.

Did they check her biblical understanding as well?

No, they didn't say anything about her biblical understanding. This is a very small church run by an elderly pastor and one family (no relation to the pastor) No one else has had to undergo a background check. A young mother leads an older group of children and her 14 year old daughter leads the younger group. The pastor requested my wife have the background check/fingerprint because she's the newest member. He also made the remark that she is less qualified because she does not have any children.

My, how times seem to be changing.

[Swords99]

1 minute ago, Yowm said:

And I suppose the 14 yr old daughter has children? Umm, nevermind.

Like I said, this one family is involved in most of the inner workings of this church. My wife recently left it because there seems to be no growth for her there and no opportunity to use her spiritual gifts.

The pastor seems to have no vision for this church.

[Swords99]

2 minutes ago, Yowm said:

Sounds typical of nepotic churches.

I agree. My wife did mention this very thing to the pastor's wife.

Funny thing is, this church is over 60 years old and currently has about 20 members. It is in a small town though, yet it does nothing to try and grow. Recently the pastor said the church barely has enough money to stay open and he asked everyone to up their offerings.

[Swords99]

1 minute ago, Yowm said:

My guess is they need a burden for souls, not greater numbers or tithes.

Absolutely.

[Neighbor]

Just as an aide. 

All our personnel and all volunteers  must pass the same criminal background check and meet standards any government public school employee undergoes. - Background check,  fingerprints, etc. All teachers must be qualified in what they teach. 

There is rather extensive training for elders, deacons, and deaconesses. 

No one just volunteers to teach nor watch our young nor care for our babies!

 

If I were the only one to be subjected to "examination" I'd be happy to know that I am the only one  considered to be above reproach when the examination is complete.

 

Edited June 22, 2017 by Neighbor

[Swords99]

10 hours ago, Neighbor said:

Just as an aide. 

All our personnel and all volunteers  must pass the same criminal background check and meet standards any government public school employee undergoes. - Background check,  fingerprints, etc. All teachers must be qualified in what they teach. 

There is rather extensive training for elders, deacons, and deaconesses. 

No one just volunteers to teach nor watch our young nor care for our babies!

 

If I were the only one to be subjected to "examination" I'd be happy to know that I am the only one  considered to be above reproach when the examination is complete.

 

Yes, times have sure changed. Wasn't like this years ago. I can remember being in a church where we were all given a questionnaire to fill out about our spiritual gifts. The pastor put those with different gifts into those positions. No background check was ever mentioned. It was unheard of in those days. Women who wanted to work with children were allowed to do so. The only qualification for deacons were those found in the scriptures. The pastor would interview the person, but that was the extent of it. In some of the larger churches, the board of elders took a vote.

I think the Holy Spirit is the best Trainer. He alone distributes the gifts. Sad that many churches are being run like a secular business. Sign of the times.

 

[Neighbor]

40 minutes ago, Swords99 said:

Yes, times have sure changed. Wasn't like this years ago. I can remember being in a church where we were all given a questionnaire to fill out about our spiritual gifts. The pastor put those with different gifts into those positions. No background check was ever mentioned. It was unheard of in those days. Women who wanted to work with children were allowed to do so. The only qualification for deacons were those found in the scriptures. The pastor would interview the person, but that was the extent of it. In some of the larger churches, the board of elders took a vote.

I think the Holy Spirit is the best Trainer. He alone distributes the gifts. Sad that many churches are being run like a secular business. Sign of the times.

 

Interesting use of the term secular business. The model of today's successful modern business is not the model of  Jesus' church for this time. With a CEO  COO CFO and so on. But it is the common practice of many a church to model itself after the model of successful business today.

The local body that God has called me to does not have a CEO at all. It has,  in our case nine  elders at this time each with equal voting power. They must reach unity of purpose on each  area of spiritual guidance  for the local body. Deacons are servants heading particular goals of the ministry. They serve under and at the pleasure of the Elders. Deaconesses the same.

The pressure to  be above reproach  under the present day conditions of society has brought about the stringent scrutiny that includes  background checks on  even volunteers. It may be a sign of the times, or as one ministry puts it the "Time Of The Signs".

The pressure is okay, it is a challenge to be met in a society that has almost no regard for integrity of Christian church. It is also  a time of many wolves in sheep's clothing. Separating and keeping out the wolves out  away from the fold, protecting the sheep, and especially the young,  the babies, plus the widows and orphans, is of paramount concern of our elders, requiring much effort. It cannot and is not to be a casual concern today.Elders lead and need support of the whole body of Christ as the local church. So all may be better served when each member and attendee lend support to security more than  lament and contention regarding that security need. 

Security need is not something to be lamented as much as it is something to face up to and be thorough in response to the challenge.

By comparison not anyone coming in off the street and sitting to hear  a worship and sermon are qualified to be members of the local body and vote on it's charter it's finances it's management. In the same way not everyoe is qualified to tend the nursery of our babies as parents gather to worship or serve as workers in ministry.

While it seems a harder world today, and maybe it is too, we are also toughened up in our vigilance because of it. And that is  I am confident a good thing, a good testimony.

Locally there is security at worship, at school, at nursery, at all missions and ministries of the church  for the church is under persecution and attack. It is real, it is something that must be addressed by the churches. The local bodies it members and attendees I think should be encouraging of all defenses that the church elder's leadership deems reasonable and desirable! 

To always be prepared to defend the gospel includes being prepared to defend the church body too. It has from the day  of Paul's pleas for the many local churches to raise money  to be taken by him to the most oppressed church body at Jerusalem, where the oppression of that local body was spiritual, and  manifested in physical, financial as well as emotional, attack upon its members.

Edited June 23, 2017 by Neighbor