Events before the antichrist appears

[Guest]

36 minutes ago, Keras said:

I repeat: The idea of a 'rapture to heaven' is a Satanic lie. 

Thats some pretty strong words. Watch yourself lest you fall! 

Rev 1:7

Revelation 1:7

⁷ Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. 

This scriptre doesnt say he "cometh in the clouds again" which means it is the first time he DESCENDS. He comes in the clouds because clouds are a representation of wrath in the word in many cases.  Also, he does set foot on the earth. Christ will come with the saints at the end . That is when he sets foot on the earth.

 

Rev 22:19And if anyone takes away from thewords of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holycity, which are described in this book. 20He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!…

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Blueyedjewel said:

Thats some pretty strong words. Watch yourself lest you fall! 

Rev 1:7

Revelation 1:7

⁷ Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. 

This scriptre doesnt say he "cometh in the clouds again" which means it is the first time he DESCENDS. He comes in the clouds because clouds are a representation of wrath in the word in many cases. The wrath is for all hose who are EARTH DWELLERS. The church has never been referred to as earth dwellers. Also, he does set foot on the earth. Christ will come with the saints at the end . That is when he sets foot on the earth. Do you want to be correct in your interpretation or right in your own eyes.  The Gap theory you postulate is one of the  most unscriptural  theories yet! 

 

Rev 22:19And if anyone takes away from thewords of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holycity, which are described in this book. 20He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!…

 

Edited August 10, 2017 by Guest

[OldCoot]

1 hour ago, Keras said:

The Lord's righteous people are one. Ephesians 4:4-6, John 17:20-23, Col 3:11, +  There is no separation between Jew and Gentile. And there is no salvation for those who reject Jesus. AND there is no removal for anyone. 

That is true about no separation.... in the church.  But Israel is elect because of the promises made by God to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.  True, that not all Israel will believe and be saved, but Israel is still in view as far as God is concerned.  Those of Israel that do come to faith, then they are one with all the believers in the body where there is no distinction between Jew and Gentile.  

While we're on this, that passage that says there is no Jew or Gentile also says there is no male or female.   Now I defy anyone to grab a bunch of males and females and put them in front of the congregation and strip and then try to argue the case there is no male or female in the body.    In the real world, there is Jew, there is Gentile, and there is the Church.  The Jews are beloved because of the patriarchs.

Romans 11:28-29 (NKJV) Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

1 hour ago, Keras said:

You are just careless in your research about the ten tribes and you make incorrect claims.  I never said anyone would or could become Jewish. That's quite ridiculous. But we Christians are the Israelites of God, either from Jacob or grafted in by faith. 

I never assumed you said anyone would become Jewish or that I did.  But by you saying that now the church is Israel, you are.  And I sure didn't see batches of western civilization people, or Christians for that matter, clamoring to get to Israel when the country was founded.  I guess then that all the Christians who are now literally Israel are in rebellion of God and they therefore get to enjoy the curses given to Israel for rebellion.   Come on.  The gentiles in the church are grafted in. They make up spiritual Israel, which is based of the faith of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and the prophets.  Not grafted in to physical Israel.

You are getting your kingdoms confused.  The kingdom of Yeshua is not of this world.  Israel as a nation is of this physical world.  You want them both, but you are not allowed to have them both.  And just because a few Jews migrated to Europe and got in the wood pile, does not make western civilization any more Israel than the man in the moon.  I have some Native American in my blood.  Does that now mean I am an official member of the Sioux nation?  Of course not.   I defy anyone to fly into Tel Aviv and show them that since you have 10% Ashkenazi DNA that now you want to make Aliyah to Israel and join the nation.  They will escort you back to the terminal gate to get your fight home.

If I am careless about my research on the tribes, prove it only from scripture.  That is all I used.  Prove that there is no way that any of the 10 tribes ever joined with the southern kingdom or were ever heard from again in scripture.  Prove that Leviticus 26 and the years Israel would be punished according to Ezekiel is incorrect.   My assertions are only faulty because they contradict your assertions.  Yeshua did tell His disciples to only go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, but they were lost only in the sense of needing salvation.  They were lost in their sin.  Not because they didn't know where they were or living on another continent.  To imply anything else is purely fantasy.  Just using scripture to justify an already preconceived idea.  It is allegorizing scripture to the extreme.

Frankly this stuff western civilization and/or the church is now the true Israel that is based on British Israelism or other such nonsense is just that.  It led to offensive works like "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" and other trash.  And it led straight to the gas chambers at Auschwitz and Dachau.  This mindset has caused the death or more Jews than almost anything else.   You might want to take a closer look at Matthew 25 regarding Yeshua and His brethren.  And since that was before the beginning of the church, it can only mean His brethren in the flesh... the physical Hebrews that He was standing in the midst of.

Edited August 10, 2017 by OldCoot

[Keras]

2 hours ago, OldCoot said:

The gentiles in the church are grafted in. They make up spiritual Israel, which is based of the faith of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and the prophets.

Well, you got that right!

The rest of what you spout is not. 

The proof that the lost tribes remain outside of the Jewish people, is in how each tribe was blessed by Jacob, Genesis 49 and by Moses, Deut 33. The tribes of Judah and Benjamin; todays Jewish people, never got the blessings the others did. Also the Jews are not now, or have ever been, 'as many as the sands of the sea'. Hosea 1:10    Of course we do have historical, archaeological, heraldic and linguistic proofs of who the Israelites are today, but you don't want to know, as the truth doesn't suit your beliefs. 

 

[OldCoot]

2 hours ago, Keras said:

Well, you got that right!

The rest of what you spout is not. 

The proof that the lost tribes remain outside of the Jewish people, is in how each tribe was blessed by Jacob, Genesis 49 and by Moses, Deut 33. The tribes of Judah and Benjamin; todays Jewish people, never got the blessings the others did. Also the Jews are not now, or have ever been, 'as many as the sands of the sea'. Hosea 1:10    Of course we do have historical, archaeological, heraldic and linguistic proofs of who the Israelites are today, but you don't want to know, as the truth doesn't suit your beliefs. 

 

So was it a ruse that God had the writers of 2 Chronicles say that all of those of Israel that remained faithful migrated south with the Levites and joined with the southern kingdom?   I guess just to throw us off the real truth, eh?  And what could Ezra and Nehemiah been thinking?  Were they taking hallucinogens, or was it just wishful thinking passed off as scripture? Ezra called the returning remnant from the captivity in Babylon, Jews 8 times and Israel 40 times.  Nehemiah called those he brought with him, Jews 11 times and Israel 22 times.  And in Nehemiah 12:47, he mentions "all Israel".  Not a whisper that the 12 tribes were unaccounted for.  

And people from 4 of the tribes are mentioned in the NT.  That is beyond dispute.  So even with that alone, the 10 tribes are not lost somewhere.  The writer of Hebrews and James both had a firm grasp on who they were writing to.  And the 144,000 are form 12 of the 13 tribes.  Yes, 13.  Joseph can be counted as a tribe or his two sons can be counted as tribes. Jacob adopted Joseph's sons.  This is why in some locations where the tribes are mentioned, Joseph is mentioned or Ephraim and Mannasah are mentioned if Joseph isn't.  Why that is done is yet another study we don't have time for in this thread.  No matter who gets left out (like Dan in the Revelation) you still have 12 tribes to pick from.

To be fair, those that did remain in Babylon and didn't return, more than likely they are the ones who drifted off and became the Ashkenazi Jews.  After all, most of the Ashkenazi Jews recognize the Babylonian Talmud while the Sephardic Jews primarily use the Jerusalem Talmud.  But just because they drifted off does not take away from the fact that scripture shows in multiple places that all Israel is accounted for.  Also, even though they drifted off, they never lost their identity.  A large portion of them have returned to modern Israel.  It does beg the question then, if true Israel is who you say they are, then why are they staying in rebellion and not migrating back to The Land?   After all, it was promised to the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.  So you need to pack up and leave NZ and head to Israel to remain faithful!

But it was because the majority did not return with either Ezra or Nehemiah, that Israel never really became a nation again until 1948.  They were under the thumb of Greece, Rome, and then dispersed after 135 AD, though there still were some in the land over the centuries.  That comports with the 360 years of punishment left after the Babylonian captivity and multiplied 7 times per Leviticus 26.   

Edited August 11, 2017 by OldCoot
stupid spell Checker!

[Keras]

Sure, all those Israelites of the Northern tribes, at the Assyrian conquest, who kept their faith did join with Judah. But they would have been a small proportion and we do have a book by Tobit, an Israelite of the tribe of Naphtali, who was a faithful believer who did go into exile. 

The Jews have no proof of their ancestry and the rest of Israel have lost their identity; all as God planned it. But He knows who they all are. Amos 9:9  The only reason it matters, is so that God can fulfil His promise to the Patriarchs, of their descendants occupying all of the holy Land: the area from the Nile to the Euphrates. Plainly the Jewish people can't do that and especially as its clear that only a remnant will survive. Romans 9:27

As Christians now, we must simply maintain our faith, thru whatever will come and if we are actual Israelites; well and good, if not; then we are grafted in aliens and that's OK too. Isaiah 56:1-8  We will all go into our heritage after the Lord clears and cleanses all of the holy Land. Zephaniah 1:18

[George]

On 8/10/2017 at 4:43 PM, Blueyedjewel said:

Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. 

Most people never notice the quote - they that also PIERCED HIM.

Matthew 26:63-64  But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.   Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. 

How do you fit the two together?  Unless it's the same event?

Joh 5:28  Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 
Joh 5:29  And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. 

Dan 12:2  And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

[Daniel 11:36]

"The Jews have no proof of their ancestry and the rest of Israel have lost their identity"

 

The Lord knows the identity for certain .... all 12 tribes

[Guest]

8 hours ago, George said:

Most people never notice the quote - they that also PIERCED HIM.

Are you concluding that "most people" "never notice" because these "most people" have a different interpretation than you? 

 

8 hours ago, George said:

How do you fit the two together?  Unless it's the same event?

Unless what is the same event? Do I guess at your meaning? I need more from you .What you are trying to say?

[Keras]

5 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

The Jews have no proof of their ancestry and the rest of Israel have lost their identity"

The Lord knows the identity for certain .... all 12 tribes

Yes He does and we do for ourselves, if in our hearts, we truly believe in God and are born again in Jesus.  All who walk in the Way of Christianity are the Israel of God. Galatians 6:16  

So, everyone needs to get out of the false idea of the Jews bring still a special people that God will eventually forgive. Their chance is now, like everyone and its plain to all, that most have chosen to reject Jesus, to their eternal loss. 

George: you have mixed up the Return of Jesus for His Millennium reign; Matthew 26, with the Great White Throne Judgement at the end of the Mill, John 5:28-29.  Two separate events 1000 years apart.