Pope

[spiderman1917]

2 minutes ago, Yowm said:

Individual Roman Catholics can get saved despite the Roman system just as the Galatians could get saved despite the false teachers they were listening to. 

 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.
(Gal 1:6-9)
 

Do you wish to justify a system Paul says is accursed? Actually not a system only but anyone adding works to the Gospel.

I wish to promote Christian unity.  By pointing the finger and saying "you are accursed whore of Babylon", only drives Christians mad.

I don't like seeing so much fighting over how to interpret the Bible and so much judging and condemning.

Non Christians see how much we bicker and despise each other that it makes them not want to be Christian.

Jesus said "Judge not lest yea be judged, condemn not, lest yea be condemned"

[KiwiChristian]

On 07/09/2017 at 4:15 PM, spiderman1917 said:

Paul said "it is no longer I who live but Christ".  That statement reminds me of what Pope Nick said.

Anyway, Scripture says the spirit of the Antichrist doesn't confess that Jesus is Lord.

Oh, there is more than one anti-Christ.

 

And, i dont recall Paul ever saying he was God!

[KiwiChristian]

4 hours ago, spiderman1917 said:

I wish to promote Christian unity.  By pointing the finger and saying "you are accursed whore of Babylon", only drives Christians mad.

So you would condemn Jesus for calling people snakes, vipers, sons of satan, that they were going to hell, etc.?

4 hours ago, spiderman1917 said:

I don't like seeing so much fighting over how to interpret the Bible and so much judging and condemning.

This has NOTHING to do with "interpreting" the Bible!~

4 hours ago, spiderman1917 said:

Non Christians see how much we bicker and despise each other that it makes them not want to be Christian.

You are, of course assuming that catholics are "Christian"

4 hours ago, spiderman1917 said:

Jesus said "Judge not lest yea be judged, condemn not, lest yea be condemned"

LOL. Please quote the WHOLE passage, please, not just a little part of it.

 

[KiwiChristian]

5 hours ago, spiderman1917 said:

Mary is not a Deity in the Church.  There is one God in Catholicism.  Mary is known as the ark of the new covenant and an intercessor in heaven who prays for the world night and day.

But there is ONE intercessor and mary aint Him!

“Hail, holy Queen, Mother of Mercy! Our life, our sweetness and our hope! To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve. To thee do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping, in this valley of tears. Turn, then, most gracious Advocate, thine eyes of mercy toward us; and after this our exile show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus. O clement, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary.” Doesn’t this sound like worship?
 

Can we pray to Mary or other saints as we do to God? Can some person who is at the other end of the universe hear our prayers? Isn't this something that is exclusively reserved to God? How can a saint hear hundreds or thousands of prayers at one time? No matter how great a saint they were, they are not omniscient nor can they answer our prayers (it is a known fact there are more prayers offered to Mary than to God by Catholics). This is seen by the statement by Bishop Liqouri “We often more quickly obtain what we ask by calling on the name of Mary than by invoking that of Jesus. She...is our Salvation, our Life, our Hope, our Counsel, our Refuge, our Help” (The Glories of Mary by Bishop Alphonse de Ligouri (Brooklyn: Redemptorist Fathers, pp. 254, 257).
 

We may affirm that by the will of God, nothing is given to us without Mary's mediation, in such a way that just as no one can approach the Almighty Father but through His Son, so no one, so to speak, can approach Christ but through His Mother.Pope Leo XIII, Adjutricem populi, 5 September 1895: http://www.rosarychurch.net/mary/mediatrix.html

Pope Leo XIII, Adjutricem populi, 5 September 1895: O Virgin most holy, none abounds in the knowledge of God except through thee. None, O Mother of God, obtains salvation except through thee. None receives a gift from the throne of mercy except through thee.

From Bishop Liguoris' "The Glories of Mary", APPROVED by the vatican! "She (Mary) is . . . the ONLY hope of sinners: (p. 69),"We will be heard and saved sooner by going to Mary, and invoking her holy name, than that of Jesus our Savior. We will find salvation sooner going to the mother than going to the Son" (p. 82),"Many things asked of God and not received are asked and received from Mary (p. 82). All obey the precepts of Mary, even God" (p. 115).

For to be right and good, worship of the Mother of God ought to spring from the heart; acts of the body have here neither utility nor value if the acts of the soul have no part in them. Now these latter can only have one object, which is that we should fully carry out what the divine Son of Mary commands. For if true love alone has the power to unite the wills of men, it is of the first necessity that we should have one will with Mary to serve Jesus our Lord. What this most prudent Virgin said to the servants at the marriage feast of Cana she addresses also to us: "Whatsoever he shall say to you, do ye" (John ii., 5).

http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius10/p10imcon.htm

 

ALL CATHOLIC LIES!

The Gospel of Jesus Christ has absolutely nothing to do with Mary. None of the Apostles ever mentioned Mary in their Epistles. Jesus never directed us to recognize Mary. In fact, the Bible clearly states in Matthew 11:11 that there has never been a child born amongst women greater than John the Baptist.

 

Anyhow, this thread is NOT about mary, so PLEASE stay on topic.

[KiwiChristian]

5 hours ago, spiderman1917 said:

Such doctrine wasn't sound but they were still saved.

Scripture doesn't say Catholics are on the road to destruction.  On the contrary, Scripture makes it clear that Catholics are saved.

How are you saved?

[KiwiChristian]

13 hours ago, spiderman1917 said:

I'm not saying Catholicism is true.  I don't know.

Then how can you say my quotes are wrong?

 

13 hours ago, spiderman1917 said:

What I do know is Catholicism confesses Jesus as Lord and savior.  If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe God raised him from the dead, the Bible says you will be saved.

But, WHICH Jesus?

13 hours ago, spiderman1917 said:

The Catholic Church put together the first Christian Bible in the council of Rome, Carthage, and Hippo.

That has been historically proven to be a LIE.

If the Bible is a Catholic book, how can Catholics account for the passage, "A bishop then, must be blameless, married but once, reserved, prudent, of good conduct, hospitable, a teacher...He should rule well his own household, keeping his children under control and perfectly respectful. For if a man cannot rule his own household, how is he to take care of the church of God?" (1 Tim. 3:2, 4-5). The Catholic Church does not allow a bishop to marry, while the Bible says "he must be married." Furthermore, if the Bible is a Catholic book, why did they write the Bible as it is, and feel the necessity of putting footnotes at the bottom of the page in effort to keep their subject from believing what is in the text?

It cannot be proven that the Catholic Church is solely responsible for the gathering and selection of the New Testament books. In fact, it can be shown that the New Testament books were gathered into one volume and were in circulation long before the Catholic Church claims to have taken its action in 390 at the council of Hippo.

God did not give councils the authority to select His sacred books, nor does He expect men to receive His sacred books only because of councils or on the basis of councils. It takes no vote or sanction of a council to make the books of the Bible authoritative. Men were able to rightly discern which books were inspired before the existence of ecclesiastical councils and men can do so today. A council of men in 390 with no divine authority whatever, supposedly took upon itself the right to state which books were inspired, and Catholics argue, "We can accept the Bible only on the authority of the Catholic Church." Can we follow such reasoning?
 

13 hours ago, spiderman1917 said:

For centuries there was no other Christian Church on Earth but the RCC.  That institution could not rise to such power without God's will and grace.

No, it was the catholic church. not ROMAN catholic.

The Roman Catholic "Church" was not really in effect as an organization in the first couple hundred years of the Christian Church.  The Christian church was under persecution and official church gatherings were risky business in the Roman Empire.  Catholicism as an organization with a central figure located in Rome did not occur for quite some time, in spite of its false claim they can trace the papacy back to Peter.
 

The early church as described in the NT did the following: shared all things in common, relationships, support missionaries/ministers, teaching & preaching, praying, worshiping, reading of scripture, evangelism, fostering spiritual gifts. No where does the NT dictate fancy buildings, robes, repetitive prayer, a priesthood, Mary worship, sectarianism, or any order of service, etc.. all these are MAN MADE traditions ADDED ON. 
 

13 hours ago, spiderman1917 said:

The rebuke of graven images was part of the OT law, which few Christians follow.  If the images were so offensive to Jesus, surely the New Testament would condemn such things.

LOL. the 12 commandments are reiterated in the New Testamant 

Second Commandment: Acts 15:20; 17:16; 29; 1 Corinthians 5:10-11; 6:9; 10:7, 14, 19; 12:2; 2 Corinthians 6:16; Galatians 5:20; Ephesians 5:5; Colossians 3:5; 1 Thessalonians 1:9; 1 Peter 4:3; 1 John 5:21; Revelation 2:14; 9:20; 21:8; 22:15.

 

13 hours ago, spiderman1917 said:

I don't like some of what I see Catholics doing, but I think calling what over a billion Christians hold as sacred, the whore of Babylon, is very judgemental, condemning, disrespectful, uncharitable, and unchristian!

Oh, the Bible calls catholicism/papacy as the whore.

 

No offense, you seem quite ignorant and are only repeating things someone told you. It doesnt seem like YOU have studied.

 

[KiwiChristian]

11 hours ago, HAZARD said:

I found this interesting;  . . . . 

link,

 

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/

 

LIST OF CATHOLIC HERESIES
And HUMAN TRADITIONS

ADOPTED and PERPETUATED by the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH
IN THE COURSE OF 1600 YEARS

(Compiled by Rev. Stephen L. Testa)

“And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall
make you free.” —Jesus in John 8:32

Notice: These dates are in many cases approximate. Many of these heresies had been current in the Church years before, but only when they were officially adopted by a Church council and proclaimed by the pope as dogma of faith, did they become binding on Catholics.

And doctrine to be true must conform to the Word of God. “To the law and to the testimony; if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.” (Isaiah 8:20)

At the Reformation in the 16th Century these heresies were repudiated as having no part in the Religion of Jesus as taught in the New Testament.

Heresy	Date
OF ALL THE HUMAN TRADITIONS taught and practiced by the Roman Catholic Church, which are contrary to the Bible, the most ancient are the prayers for the dead and the sign of the Cross. Both began 300 years after Christ.	310
Wax Candles introduced in church	320
Veneration of angels and dead saints	375
The Mass, as a daily celebration, adopted	394
The worship of Mary, the mother of Jesus, and the use of the term, "Mother of God", as applied to her, originated in the Council of Ephesus	431
Priests began to dress differently from the laity	500
Extreme Unction	526
The doctrine of Purgatory was first established by Gregory the Great	593
The Latin language, as the language of prayer and worship in churches, was also imposed by Pope Gregory I. 600 years after Christ The Word of God forbids praying and teaching in an unknown tongue. (1st Corinthians 14:9).	600
The Bible teaches that we pray to God alone. In the primitive church never were prayers directed to Mary, or to dead saints. This practice began in the Roman Church. (Matthew 11:28; Luke 1:46; Acts 10:25-26; 14:14-18)	600
The Papacy is of pagan origin. The title of pope or universal bishop, was first given to the bishop of Rome by the wicked emperor Phocas. This he did to spite Bishop Ciriacus of Constantinople, who had justly excommunicated him for his having caused the assassination of his predecessor emperor Mauritius. Gregory 1, then bishop of Rome, refused the title, but his successor, Boniface III, first assumed title "pope." Jesus did not appoint Peter to the headship of the apostles and forbade any such notion. (Luke 22:24-26; Ephesians 1:22-23; Colossians 1:18; 1st Corinthians 3:11). Note: Nor is there any mention in Scripture, nor in history, that Peter ever was in Rome, much less that he was pope there for 25 years; Clement, 3rd bishop of Rome, remarks that "there is no real 1st century evidence that Peter ever was in Rome."	610
The kissing of the Pope's feet It had been a pagan custom to kiss the feet of emperors. The Word of God forbids such practices. (Read Acts 10:25-26; Revelation 19:10; 22:9).	709
The Temporal power of the Popes When Pepin, the usurper of the throne of France, descended into Italy, called by Pope Stephen II, to war against the Italian Lombards, he defeated them and gave the city of Rome and surrounding territory to the pope. Jesus expressly forbade such a thing, and He himself refused worldly kingship. (Read Matthew 4:8-9; 20:25-26; John 18:38).	750
Worship of the cross, images and relics was authorized This was by order of Dowager Empress Irene of Constantinople, who first caused to pluck the eyes of her own son, Constantine VI, and then called a church council at the request of Hadrian I, pope of Rome at that time. Such practice is called simply IDOLATRY in the Bible, and is severely condemned. (Read Exodus 20:4; 3:17; Deuteronomy 27:15; Psalm 115).	788
Holy Water, mixed with a pinch of salt and blessed by the priest, was authorized	850
The veneration of St. Joseph began	890
The baptism of bells was instituted by Pope John XIV	965
Canonization of dead saints, first by Pope John XV Every believer and follower of Christ is called saint in the Bible. (Read Romans 1:7; 1st Colossians 1:2).	995
Fasting on Fridays and during Lent were imposed Imposed by popes said to be interested in the commerce of fish. (Bull, or permit to eat meat), some authorities say, began in the year 700. This is against the plain teaching of the Bible. (Read Matthew 15:10; 1st Corinthians 10:25; 1st Timothy 4:1-3).	998
The Mass was developed gradually as a sacrifice; attendance made obligatory in the 11th century. The Bible teaches that the sacrifice of Christ was offered once and for all, and is not to be repeated, but only commemorated in the Lord's Supper. (Read Hebrews 7:27; 9:26-28; 10:10-14).
The celibacy of the priesthood was decreed by Pope Hildebrand, Boniface VII Jesus imposed no such rule, nor did any of the apostles. On the contrary, St. Peter was a married man, and St. Paul says that bishops were to have wife and children. (Read 1st Timothy 3:2,5, and 12; Matthew 8:14-15).	1079

The Rosary, or prayer beads was introduced by Peter the Hermit, in the year 1090. Copied from Hindus and Mohammedans The counting of prayers is a pagan practice and is expressly condemned by Christ. (Matthew 6:5-13).	1090
The Inquisition of heretics was instituted by the Council of Verona in the year 1184. Jesus never taught the use of force to spread His religion	1184
The sale of Indulgences, commonly regarded as a purchase of forgiveness and a permit to indulge in sin. Christianity, as taught in the Bible, condemns such a traffic and it was the protest against this traffic that brought on the Protestant Reformation in the 16th century.	1190
The dogma of Transubstantiation was decreed by Pope Innocent III, in the year By this doctrine the priest pretends to perform a daily miracle by changing a wafer into the body of Christ, and then he pretends to eat Him alive in the presence of his people during Mass. The Bible condemns such absurdities; for the Lord's Supper is simply a memorial of the sacrifice of Christ. The spiritual presence of Christ is implied in the Lord's Supper. (Read Luke 22:19-20; John 6:35; 1st Corinthians 11:26).	1215
Confession of sin to the priest at least once a year was instituted by Pope Innocent III., in the Lateran Council The Bible commands us to confess our sins direct to God. (Read Psalm 51:1-10; Luke 7:48; 15:21; 1st John 1:8-9).	1215
The adoration of the wafer (Host), was decreed by Pope Honorius So the Roman Church worships a God made by human hands. This is plain idolatry and absolutely contrary to the spirit of the Gospel. (Read John 4:24).	1220
The Bible forbidden to laymen and placed in the Index of forbidden books by the Council of Valencia Jesus commanded that the Scriptures should be read by all. (John 5:39; 1st Timothy 3:15-17).	1229
The Scapular was invented by Simon Stock, and English monk It is a piece of brown cloth, with the picture of the Virgin and supposed to contain supernatural virtue to protect from all dangers those who wear it on naked skin. This is fetishism.	1287
The Roman Church forbade the cup to the laity, by instituting the communion of one kind in the Council of Constance The Bible commands us to celebrate the Lord's Supper with unleavened bread and the fruit of the vine. (Read Matthew 26:27; 1st Corinthians 11:26-29).	1414
The doctrine of Purgatory was proclaimed as a dogma of faith by Council of Florence There is not one word in the Bible that would teach the purgatory of priests. The blood of Jesus Christ cleanseth us from all sins. (Read 1st John 1:7-9; 2:1-2; John 5:24; Romans 8:1).	1439
The doctrine of 7 Sacraments affirmed The Bible says that Christ instituted only two ordinances, Baptism and the Lord's Supper. (Read Matthew 28:19-20; 26:26-28).	1439
The Ave Maria, part of the last It was completed 50 years afterward and finally approved by Pope Sixtus V, at the end of the 16th century.	1508
The Council of Trent, held in the year 1545, declared that Tradition is of equal authority with the Bible By tradition is meant human teachings. The Pharisees believed the same way, and Jesus bitterly condemned them, for by teaching human tradition, they nullified the commandments of God. (Read Mark 7:7-13; Colossians 2:8; Revelation 22:18).	1545
The apocryphal books were added to the Bible also by the Council of Trent These books were not recognized as canonical by the Jewish Church. (See Revelation 22:8-9).	1546
The Creed of Pope Pius IV was imposed as the official creed 1560 years after Christ and the apostles True Christians retain the Holy Scriptures as their creed. Hence their creed is 1500 years older than the creed of Roman Catholics. (Read Galatians 1:8).	1560
The Immaculate Conception of the Virgin Mary was proclaimed by Pope Pius IX The Bible states that all men, with the sole exception of Christ, are sinners. Mary herself had need of a Savior. (Read Romans 3:23; 5:12; Psalm 51:5; Luke 1:30,46,47).	1834
In the year 1870 after Christ, Pope Pius IX proclaimed the dogma of Papal Infallibility This is a blasphemy and the sign of the apostasy and of the antichrist predicted by St. Paul. (Read 2nd Thessalonians 2:2-12; Revelation 17:1-9; 13:5-8,18). Many Bible students see the number of the beast (Rev. 13:18), 666 in the Roman letters of the Pope's title: "VICARIVS FILII DEI." -- V-5, I-1; C-100, I-1; V-S, I-1; L-50, I-1; I-1; D-500, I-l — Total, 666.	1870
Pope Plus X, in the year 1907, condemned together with "Modernism", all the discoveries of modern science which are not approved by the Church Pius IX had done the same thing in the Syllabus of 1864.	1907
In the year 1930 Pius XI, condemned the Public Schools	1930
In the year 1931 the same pope Pius XI, reaffirmed the doctrine that Mary is "the Mother of God" This doctrine was first invented by the Council of Ephesus in the year 431. This is a heresy contrary by Mary's own words. (Read Luke 1:46-49; John 2: l-5).	1931
In the year 1950 the last dogma was proclaimed by Pope Pius XII, the Assumption of the Virgin Mary	1950

I was going to post that! Thanks for saving me the trouble.

 

This proves these "traditions " were introduced by MEN over MANY YEARS.

[KiwiChristian]

5 hours ago, spiderman1917 said:

The Catholic Church teaches that Jesus is Lord and provides all that is necessary to be saved: Romans 10:9 ►

If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Just saying the words mean NOTHING. By their fruits ye shall know them.

 

You are totally IGNORING all these proofs that catholicism is anti-Christian and are simply repeated ONE verse.

Soften your heart, my friend.

[KiwiChristian]

[spiderman1917]

As I see it, you are the one compromising God's word. Galatians 5:14 ►

For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."   37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[c] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment.39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[d] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”   I've got the word of God to back my premise up.  If a Catholic keeps the "entire law", I don't see how their soul is in jeprody.   Your hatred for Catholicism is obvious.  Hatred doesn't win any converts.  People that you will win with hatred, judgements, bitterness, and condemnation, are people who are judgemental, condemning, hateful, and bitter.   If God wanted, he could easily destroy the Church.  He lets it remain the most powerful, ancient, and influential institution on Earth.   It could not be such without God's permission and will.   People will see the toxic effect the word of God is having on you with your bitterness, and they won't want to convert.   Yes, he did say "brood of vipers", but there are broods of vipers in every denomination.   The people whom Jesus was most upset with were the Religious people who knew their Scripture well.  The people who knew their Scripture well at that time were the Pharisees who quoted Scripture to attack Jesus.     Jesus knew there would be much division on how to interpret Scripture.  I suppose that is why he summed up the "entire" law in love.   Anyway, I'm not here to defend Catholic Dogma.  I like some of what the Church teaches, I don't like others.   You will not win any Catholics with your harsh judgements, hate, condemnation, and bitterness!  You will win them by leading a humble and loving example more than by memorizing and quoting much of Scripture.  The entire law is love.  God's word states this more than once.   The Catholic who is more charitable than you is keeping the "entire law" better than you.