Law and Grace

[Benevolent]

Part of the reason some believe Paul changed what Jesus taught is the perception that Paul’s teaching on grace means that obeying God’s law is no longer required. Before addressing this commonly held teaching, let’s consider what Jesus Christ taught on these important subjects.

Jesus’ teaching about law and grace

One of the sections of Scripture that clearly reveals Jesus’ teaching on law and grace is the one in which an adulteress was dragged before Him to see if He would pronounce the penalty upon her demanded by the law—death by stoning (John 8:1-11). Silent at first, He only wrote something in the dust with His finger. Pressed by the accusers to make a judgment, He told them, “He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first” (verse 7).

No one stepped forward. Instead, they slowly dissolved into the crowd within the temple. When all the accusers had left without condemning the woman, Jesus, the only One who truly was sinless, did not condemn her either. “Go and sin no more,” He told her (John 8:11).

Because of grace, God’s benevolent kindness, Jesus pardoned the woman from death for something of which she was certainly guilty. Expressed in today’s language, God’s grace was His not giving the woman what she deserved for the way she had behaved.

What did Jesus teach about law? This, too, is revealed in the above account. He did not say to the woman that she was free to carry on as before, as if she hadn’t been pardoned. He wanted her to change her way of living—to repent. Essentially, He said, “Now, go behave yourself.”

[frienduff thaylorde]

On ‎8‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 6:24 AM, Yowm said:

What is taught is the just shall live/walk by faith. Paul also explained that we are JUSTIFIED through faith in Jesus...not the law.

by their faith in. .     .  ...    ...  CHRIST.  And if its CHRIST we follow, we are not led into the darkness of sin, but have been freed from the power of it

and thus if we follow the spirit we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.  Now work out thy own salvation peoples , with fear and trembling

OBEY the SPIRIT,  for it is HE working in you that which is well pleasing in...                   .   ..... HIS SIGHT.    SING IT YOWM and SING IT SO LOUD

the Chinese hear ya and join in with song.  amen.

[frienduff thaylorde]

On ‎8‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 6:02 AM, Benevolent said:

Part of the reason some believe Paul changed what Jesus taught is the perception that Paul’s teaching on grace means that obeying God’s law is no longer required. Before addressing this commonly held teaching, let’s consider what Jesus Christ taught on these important subjects.

Jesus’ teaching about law and grace

One of the sections of Scripture that clearly reveals Jesus’ teaching on law and grace is the one in which an adulteress was dragged before Him to see if He would pronounce the penalty upon her demanded by the law—death by stoning (John 8:1-11). Silent at first, He only wrote something in the dust with His finger. Pressed by the accusers to make a judgment, He told them, “He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first” (verse 7).

No one stepped forward. Instead, they slowly dissolved into the crowd within the temple. When all the accusers had left without condemning the woman, Jesus, the only One who truly was sinless, did not condemn her either. “Go and sin no more,” He told her (John 8:11).

Because of grace, God’s benevolent kindness, Jesus pardoned the woman from death for something of which she was certainly guilty. Expressed in today’s language, God’s grace was His not giving the woman what she deserved for the way she had behaved.

What did Jesus teach about law? This, too, is revealed in the above account. He did not say to the woman that she was free to carry on as before, as if she hadn’t been pardoned. He wanted her to change her way of living—to repent. Essentially, He said, “Now, go behave yourself.”

Guess they must not have read Hebrews..........and the SPIRIT bears WITNESS.............for in those days it is said............I shall WRITE my law upon their hearts

and in their minds.....and I will be their GOD .   SING IT

[Heleadethme]

On 8/27/2017 at 9:02 AM, Benevolent said:

Part of the reason some believe Paul changed what Jesus taught is the perception that Paul’s teaching on grace means that obeying God’s law is no longer required. Before addressing this commonly held teaching, let’s consider what Jesus Christ taught on these important subjects.

Jesus’ teaching about law and grace

One of the sections of Scripture that clearly reveals Jesus’ teaching on law and grace is the one in which an adulteress was dragged before Him to see if He would pronounce the penalty upon her demanded by the law—death by stoning (John 8:1-11). Silent at first, He only wrote something in the dust with His finger. Pressed by the accusers to make a judgment, He told them, “He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first” (verse 7).

No one stepped forward. Instead, they slowly dissolved into the crowd within the temple. When all the accusers had left without condemning the woman, Jesus, the only One who truly was sinless, did not condemn her either. “Go and sin no more,” He told her (John 8:11).

Because of grace, God’s benevolent kindness, Jesus pardoned the woman from death for something of which she was certainly guilty. Expressed in today’s language, God’s grace was His not giving the woman what she deserved for the way she had behaved.

What did Jesus teach about law? This, too, is revealed in the above account. He did not say to the woman that she was free to carry on as before, as if she hadn’t been pardoned. He wanted her to change her way of living—to repent. Essentially, He said, “Now, go behave yourself.”

Jesus came to minister Grace and Truth.  One thing I notice is that Jesus did not deny the righteous requirement of the Law......that adultery deserves death........but He said whoever is without sin throw the first stone at her........thus fulfilling the spirit of that Law, that sin deserves death.....He ministered the Truth.  But that set a new standard for His followers.....that only who is without sin can condemn....and that means none of us can condemn.  As God over the Law, and minister of Grace, Jesus also set a new precedent by then choosing to forgive transgression of the Law instead of condemning and punishing it......so that is what we do too as His followers.....forgive our enemies and not condemning sinners......love and do good to them.  He came to institute a new way of Grace, but without denying Truth.

[frienduff thaylorde]

On ‎9‎/‎5‎/‎2017 at 5:42 AM, Heleadethme said:

Jesus came to minister Grace and Truth.  One thing I notice is that Jesus did not deny the righteous requirement of the Law......that adultery deserves death........but He said whoever is without sin throw the first stone at her........thus fulfilling the spirit of that Law, that sin deserves death.....He ministered the Truth.  But that set a new standard for His followers.....that only who is without sin can condemn....and that means none of us can condemn.  As God over the Law, and minister of Grace, Jesus also set a new precedent by then choosing to forgive transgression of the Law instead of condemning and punishing it......so that is what we do too as His followers.....forgive our enemies and not condemning sinners......love and do good to them.  He came to institute a new way of Grace, but without denying Truth.

Ponder this too sister.  You are correct we cannot act out the law by the letter against transgressors.  aka we cant stone or kill.   GODS WRATH WILL COME AGAINST THEM, HE IS JUDGE

so we don't condemn them like that.

BUT mostforget the second part of condmen.   TO actually not warn one who is in sin............that is an act of condemnation against their very soul.

We are guilty of condemnation if we warn not our brethren in error.

TIS why GOD said.........I HAVE THIS AGAINST YOU YOU ALLOW, ALLOW that false prophetess to teach and seduce the people.

And what james said............IF one of you do convert them back.  YOU HAVE SAVED a SOUL FROM DEATH.

MANY don't know that.

[frienduff thaylorde]

Just now, frienduff thaylorde said:

Ponder this too sister.  You are correct we cannot act out the law by the letter against transgressors.  aka we cant stone or kill.   GODS WRATH WILL COME AGAINST THEM, HE IS JUDGE

so we don't condemn them like that.

BUT mostforget the second part of condmen.   TO actually not warn one who is in sin............that is an act of condemnation against their very soul.

We are guilty of condemnation if we warn not our brethren in error.

TIS why GOD said.........I HAVE THIS AGAINST YOU YOU ALLOW, ALLOW that false prophetess to teach and seduce the people.

And what james said............IF one of you do convert them back.  YOU HAVE SAVED a SOUL FROM DEATH.

MANY don't know that.

I think most forget this also.   What did JESUS tell them.  IF your brother trespass against you, forgive HIM

Not quite.  HE SAID REBUKE HIM , HE DID , we are to warn the brethren.  then if he repent forgive him.

And we also forgive those who would do us harm.   But we are to rebuke any brethren in error.   I GAURANTEE it.    How can it be the LOVE

that comes FROM GOD on our hearts, IF we can sit and agree with their sin , when the end of sin is death.   THAT is not the love that comes from GOD

its the all inclusive lie of hug and just get along dung pile interfaith type .    ALL WHOM GOD LOVES HE CHASTENS and CORRECTS

and well , let me use paul as an example , since iKNOW this love was on his heart.   THOUGH the more abundantely I love, the lESS I be loved.

WHY LOVE CORRECTS........but those who wont hear it......WONT LOVE BACK

BUT REBUKE a wise man........OH HE WILL LOVE YOU < HE WILL HEAR.       BUT I KNOW YOU KNOW THIS

I just said it for the sakes of others and also to keep us both reminded and sharpened.    SING IT SISTER>  SING IT TO THE ROOFS TO THE LORD ON HIGH

who by HIS GRACE w e  are saved.   SING IT PEOPLES .

[OldCoot]

On 8/27/2017 at 8:02 AM, Benevolent said:

One of the sections of Scripture that clearly reveals Jesus’ teaching on law and grace is the one in which an adulteress was dragged before Him to see if He would pronounce the penalty upon her demanded by the law—death by stoning (John 8:1-11). Silent at first, He only wrote something in the dust with His finger. Pressed by the accusers to make a judgment, He told them, “He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first” (verse 7).

 

May I pick on this one a little bit?

Yeshua was following the Law precisely in this event.  The Law required the testimony of two witnesses regarding a capital offense, which adultery was one.  When the others left after the confrontation with Yeshua regarding who should cast the first stone, that left only Yeshua and the woman. Yeshua probably knew full well she was guilty, but He was only one witness.   It takes two witnesses to condemn according to the Law.  So He did the proper thing, He told her that He did not condemn her and to go and sin no more.

As for what Yeshua wrote in the dirt, I am convinced it was the names of her accusers.... 

Jeremiah 17:13 (NKJV) O Lord, the hope of Israel,
All who forsake You shall be ashamed.
“Those who depart from Me
Shall be written in the earth,
Because they have forsaken the Lord,
The fountain of living waters.”

And the following verse would seem to refer to the woman involved...

Jeremiah 17:14 (NKJV) Heal me, O Lord, and I shall be healed;
Save me, and I shall be saved,
For You are my praise.

and in case someone might think I took these passages out of context, the passage in John that mentions this event was during the Feast of Sukkot (tabernacles).  The last day of the feast, the Chief Priest would draw water from the pool of Siloam and pour it on the alter.  It was a ceremony of "living water".  While this was going on.....

John 7:37-38 (NKJV) On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. 38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.”

 

 

Edited September 15, 2017 by OldCoot

[Heleadethme]

8 hours ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

I think most forget this also.   What did JESUS tell them.  IF your brother trespass against you, forgive HIM

Not quite.  HE SAID REBUKE HIM , HE DID , we are to warn the brethren.  then if he repent forgive him.

And we also forgive those who would do us harm.   But we are to rebuke any brethren in error.   I GAURANTEE it.    How can it be the LOVE

that comes FROM GOD on our hearts, IF we can sit and agree with their sin , when the end of sin is death.   THAT is not the love that comes from GOD

its the all inclusive lie of hug and just get along dung pile interfaith type .    ALL WHOM GOD LOVES HE CHASTENS and CORRECTS

and well , let me use paul as an example , since iKNOW this love was on his heart.   THOUGH the more abundantely I love, the lESS I be loved.

WHY LOVE CORRECTS........but those who wont hear it......WONT LOVE BACK

BUT REBUKE a wise man........OH HE WILL LOVE YOU < HE WILL HEAR.       BUT I KNOW YOU KNOW THIS

I just said it for the sakes of others and also to keep us both reminded and sharpened.    SING IT SISTER>  SING IT TO THE ROOFS TO THE LORD ON HIGH

who by HIS GRACE w e  are saved.   SING IT PEOPLES .

Amen frienduff thayLord.........it's the WISDOM of God you're speaking brother......see how opposite His wisdom is to the thinking of man and the ways of the world, the way that seemeth right to man but leads to death.  But God's way is the only way that leads to life.

[Heleadethme]

10 hours ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

I think most forget this also.   What did JESUS tell them.  IF your brother trespass against you, forgive HIM

Not quite.  HE SAID REBUKE HIM , HE DID , we are to warn the brethren.  then if he repent forgive him.

And we also forgive those who would do us harm.   But we are to rebuke any brethren in error.   I GAURANTEE it.    How can it be the LOVE

that comes FROM GOD on our hearts, IF we can sit and agree with their sin , when the end of sin is death.   THAT is not the love that comes from GOD

its the all inclusive lie of hug and just get along dung pile interfaith type .    ALL WHOM GOD LOVES HE CHASTENS and CORRECTS

and well , let me use paul as an example , since iKNOW this love was on his heart.   THOUGH the more abundantely I love, the lESS I be loved.

WHY LOVE CORRECTS........but those who wont hear it......WONT LOVE BACK

BUT REBUKE a wise man........OH HE WILL LOVE YOU < HE WILL HEAR.       BUT I KNOW YOU KNOW THIS

I just said it for the sakes of others and also to keep us both reminded and sharpened.    SING IT SISTER>  SING IT TO THE ROOFS TO THE LORD ON HIGH

who by HIS GRACE w e  are saved.   SING IT PEOPLES .

Gives us a deeper meaning to where Jesus said, Greater love has no man than this, than to lay down his life for his friends.....because faithful are the wounds of a friend......and because most won't love back........no, most want to crucify when they are shown GOD's love.  Oh......God's idea of love is SO different from man's idea of love......God's love disciplines and speaks the truth in love and sets straight.....and suffers for it.  Help us Jesus and deliver us from fear and bondage to the politically correct ways of the world.