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Big Bang Debunked


KiwiChristian

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On 11/7/2017 at 5:20 PM, Sojourner414 said:

My point was to establish that the earth was created IN TIME, NOT OUT OF IT.

Can YOU read a post without using it as an opportunity to PICK A FIGHT, especially when it's NOT AIMED AT YOU?

*Shakes head*

Can YOU explain WHY we have a 7 day week?

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On 11/7/2017 at 5:20 PM, Sojourner414 said:

My point was to establish that the earth was created IN TIME, NOT OUT OF IT.

So, where did TIME come from?

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On 9/13/2017 at 4:34 PM, Kevinb said:

You see that... can you demonstrate he did? In the universe big bang sense? 

Cannot prove a negative. However there are some things that animals developed simultaneously. 

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1 minute ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

I want to make sure I understand you here.  Are you saying all mammals and reptiles developed simultaneously?  For example, do you believe dinosaurs developed at the same time as hamsters?

Hi there.

No I am saying that in many animals, two or three simultaneous things had to have been created at the same time for the organism to survive. Each dependent on the other. They could not with any reasonable stretch of the imagination have had all these interdependent systems 'evolved' at precisely the same time. They were created as a unified whole.

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1 minute ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

So you're acknowledging such things as the Cambrian Explosion as an indicator of intelligent design, not evolution's survival of the fittest.  If this is what you're saying, I wholeheartedly agree.

Not only is it intelligent design, it is of such irreducible complexity that only The Creator could have done it. And on such a vast and varied scale. Exuberance in Creative Genius. Flamboyance en extremis.

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I suppose it all depends on how small one thinks God is.

If 'billions of years' of so-called evolution can occur in a moment when God speaks a Creative Word by THE WORD; and He can do this in the Genesis account so thoroughly and so completely. Then why mankind has to invent theories of vast time-spans is to me a bit cumbersome, precocious and disingenuous.

He cast the stars into the heavens and He spread them like a cloak. He spoke and it WAS SO. 

He Created it all with built-in questions. Not only to test our faith but also to confound the wicked. Our God is AMAZING.

Our God has been diminished by our science somewhat, not understanding that He created 'things' for us to discover Who He is.
Our science, conversely has raised us to believe that we have wisdom and great knowledge. Arrogance.

The so-called fossil layers represent only one thing. That a huge upheaval of world class epic proportions deposited stuff willy-nilly. Later man decided it was some kind of record. The layers are so jumbled in many locations to only really prove a monstrous calamity occurred and nothing else. Trees still upright are found at all levels. There is no fossil record to date anything by, else why are shell fish of gigantic size found on the top of Everest. To 'date' things by the 'geologic column' is circular reasoning at best, and misleading at worst.

Simply put. The Lord God did what He did when He said He did in Genesis.

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6 hours ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

So you're acknowledging such things as the Cambrian Explosion as an indicator of intelligent design

The Cambrian Explosion is a Fairytale "Just-So" Story.  It only 'indicates' a very active Imagination.

Our (Earth/Us ect) mere presence is the Strongest Indicator of Intelligent Design.  Game/Set/Match right there. thumbsup.gif

 

Quote

...but indicates the solid foundation for an Old Earth Creation, from a scientific perspective.

:groan:  There is no foundation...let alone anything solid, and Crocheting is more Scientific than the 'Cambrian Explosion'. 

 

regards

 

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19 hours ago, Sojourner414 said:

Kiwi: I will not answer either of your questions until you apologize for your unnecessary attitude.  I did nothing to deserve it, and you are being extremely rude and snarky. And I'm not the only person here you've pulled this on; you know better.

If you continue with your behavior, you will be reported to the moderation team for violation of the ToS.

Your move.

 

 

 

 

Ok, God bless.

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7 minutes ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

That's a cop-out argument.  There are multiple interpretations of Genesis 1-2 that allow for and OEC, YEC, Evolution, Theistic Evolution, and others.

I guess you might know about cop-out arguments. I do not.
Sorry, but plain reading of the Genesis account is ok for me. If you would like to jump thru man made hoops you are welcome to. However, you do not have any ground to defy scripture's simple statements. It you would like to confuse our kid's about 'millions and millions' of years then I would caution you. I certainly do not want a mill-stone necklace!

Evidence for Moses authorship of the Pentateuch

Clay tablets like this were ideal for long-term written records. Far from ‘Flintstones’ clumsiness, these could be held in one hand.
Patriarchal records may have been carried on the Ark, later used by Moses in compiling Genesis (under inspiration).

The evidence that Moses wrote the Pentateuch, often referred to in the Bible as ‘the Law’ (Hebrew torah), is overwhelming:

Contrary to the views of Wellhausen and others, archaeological research has established that writing was indeed well known in Moses’ day. The JEDP hypothesis falsely assumes that the Israelites waited until many centuries after the foundation of their nation before committing any of their history or laws to written form, even though their neighbours kept written records of their own history and religion from before the time of Moses.4

The author is obviously an eyewitness of the Exodus from Egypt, familiar with the geography,5 flora and fauna of the region;6 he uses several Egyptian words,7 and refers to customs that go back to the second millennium BC.8

The Pentateuch claims in many places that Moses was the writer, e.g. Exodus 17:14; 24:4–7; 34:27; Numbers 33:2; Deuteronomy 31:9, 22, 24.

Many times in the rest of the Old Testament, Moses is said to have been the writer, e.g. Joshua 1:7–8; 8:32–34; Judges 3:4; 1 Kings 2:3; 2 Kings 14:6; 21:8; 2 Chronicles 25:4; Ezra 6:18; Nehemiah 8:1; 13:1; Daniel 9:11–13.

In the New Testament, Jesus frequently spoke of Moses’ writings or the Law of Moses, e.g. Matthew 8:4; 19:7–8; Mark 7:10; 12:26; Luke 24:27, 44; John 5:46–47; 7:19. Jesus said that those who ‘hear not [i.e. reject] Moses’ would not be persuaded ‘though one rose from the dead’ (Luke 16:31). Thus we see that those churches and seminaries which reject the historicity of Moses’ writings often also reject the literal bodily resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Other New Testament speakers/writers said the same thing, e.g. John 1:17; Acts 6:14; 13:39; 15:5; 1 Corinthians 9:9; 2 Corinthians 3:15; Hebrews 10:28.

Does this mean that Moses wrote Genesis without reference to any previous information? Not necessarily. Genesis comprises narratives of historical events that occurred before Moses was born. Moses may very well have had access to patriarchal records and/or reliable oral traditions of these events. In that case, such records would certainly have been preserved by being written (probably on clay tablets) and handed down from father to son via the line of
Adam-Seth-Noah-Shem-Abraham-Isaac-Jacob, etc.

There are 11 verses in Genesis which read, ‘These are (or ‘This is the book of’) the generations of …’ The Hebrew word toledoth translated ‘generations’ can also mean ‘origins’, ‘history’, or even ‘family history’, and each verse comes either before or after a description of historical events that involved the person named.9 The most likely explanation is that Adam, Noah, Shem, etc. each wrote an account of the events that occurred either right before or during his lifetime, and Moses, under the infallible inspiration of the Holy Spirit, selected, compiled, and edited these to produce Genesis in its present cohesive form.10

Genesis does not show a progress from idolatry to monotheism, as Wellhausen’s evolutionism requires. Rather, the Bible begins with an original revelation of God, which was later rejected to the point that the Hebrew nation itself descended into idolatry and so was given over to captivity by God.

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10 minutes ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

Pot kettle black.

A plain reading of Genesis would lead one to the Gap Theory.  Unfortunately, some people cannot think beyond the bounds of their denomination or discernment.

There's at least two authors of the Pentateuch: Moses and the one recording his death, probably Joshua.

It's funny how some Christians put down Archeology unless it suits their purpose.  And the above quoted section which you copied from who knows where, what value am I supposed to give to that?  If you're going to copy someone else's work, cite the reference you're using and give them credit.  It's only the Christian thing to do.

OOPS. So sorry. [https://creation.com/did-moses-really-write-genesis]

I do not think I have a denomination. I probably do not have much discernment either. And yes, some of the additional authors were maybe Seth, an historian and perhaps Joshua. 

I think Archaeology properly used is wonderful. The geologic column (so called) cannot refer to itself for any kind of rational dating as this would infer circular reasoning. What has been found in the archaeological studies are huge bones, probably of the giants and many intricate artifacts. These are found in all levels of the 'column' and speak of knowledge and ability rivaling our own.

We do know the earth tilted some 23.5 degrees, probably due to some huge cataclysmic upset. We do know that mammoths have been frozen in the standing position. We do know of 300 foot trees under the arctic tundra still standing (ice cores). We do know about precession rates; that the moon cannot be dated more than about 10,000 years ago, else it would have been almost touching earth if it was much longer ago than that.  

We are aware of irreducible complexity where many systems would have had to occur at the same instance to make a viable living and surviving animal. We are also aware of giant clam shells on the top of Everest. We are aware of giant lizards with vegetation still in their teeth. (dinos were only named in the 17th-18th century). The 17th century saw the advent of many erroneous and weird doctrines and 'scientific' discoveries. Sadly, some are still in our children's text-books.

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