Ogner Posted September 21, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 562 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 268 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/27/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted September 21, 2017 1 minute ago, Yowm said: you added the word 'only' to my quote so you can make the interrelationship and put our doing as part of the topic. tsk tsk. But this is my point... but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. (Rom 5:8) But many people loved sins rather than Juses and his salvationsins from sins and condemnation. And they hated Jesus. Jesus doesn't love those who hate him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willa Posted September 21, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 186 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,242 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 16,653 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted September 21, 2017 1Jn 4:10 In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 1Jn 2:2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. 1Ti 4:10 For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of ALL people, especially of those who BELIEVE. Christ died for all. Only believers are saved. People can resist God's call and work of the Holy Spirit. Many are called but few are chosen. Act 7:51 "You stiff-necked people, uncircumcised in heart and ears, you always resist the Holy Spirit. As your fathers did, so do you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogner Posted September 21, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 562 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 268 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/27/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted September 21, 2017 While all people were still sinners, Christ died for them. Some people repented for their sins and accept Jesus as salvation and Messiah. Jesus loves them. But after Jesus die for all people, some of them do not repented and they loved sins rather than Jesus and his salvationsins from sins and condemnation. And they hated Jesus. Jesus doesn't love those who hate him. The one who rejects the Son will not see life, but God’s wrath remains on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne222 Posted September 22, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 32 Topic Count: 476 Topics Per Day: 0.17 Content Count: 6,559 Content Per Day: 2.28 Reputation: 7,638 Days Won: 9 Joined: 06/12/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 22, 2017 1 hour ago, Ogner said: While all people were still sinners, Christ died for them. Some people repented for their sins and accept Jesus as salvation and Messiah. Jesus loves them. But after Jesus die for all people, some of them do not repented and they loved sins rather than Jesus and his salvationsins from sins and condemnation. And they hated Jesus. Jesus doesn't love those who hate him. The one who rejects the Son will not see life, but God’s wrath remains on him. Jesus said I tell you love your enemy. Just because some will perish does not mean God did not love them. He sent his son to die for them on the cross. He will destroy them because all sin will be destroyed. They cannot remain in sin forever. God would have them come to repentance but he does not force others to love him. Otherwise they would be robots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frienduff thaylorde Posted September 22, 2017 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 17 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 13,256 Content Per Day: 5.34 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 62 Joined: 07/07/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/25/1972 Share Posted September 22, 2017 3 hours ago, Heleadethme said: God's ways are not our ways.......His ways and His thoughts are higher than man's ways and man's thoughts. Love, to God is not man's idea of love, but His word is what teaches us what love is..........so it is for us to learn from the scriptures what love is, and change our wrong concept of love. Because it is crystal clear from scripture that not all will inherit eternal life.....so it looks like some here still need to change their ideas of what love is. Love sure aint what many have made it out to be. The Love that comes from GOD.............LOVES TRUTH and every word of it. Jesus did also say Love thy neighbor. the entire point is...........if we truly have the LOVE on our hearts that comes from GOD. THEN we love Christ above all things, ALL THINGS. and from this love we are able to love , NOT as the world does , but as God does. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted September 22, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 165 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 1.56 Reputation: 2,607 Days Won: 15 Joined: 04/29/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted September 22, 2017 21 hours ago, Wayne222 said: Our Lord Jesus loves and died for everyone in this world. God is love. In 1 john it's says God is love. Can the love of God ordained some to be lost without a choice ? Does that make sense? The bible does not teach predestination for some to go to hell. It teaches that God wants all men to be saved. It teaches Christ died for all sinners. If God is love then why would he preordained some poor soul to the lake of fire. The good news is he does not .love would save someone from the lake of fire. God is love. He does not want anyone to perish but that all would receive eternal life through the son of God Christ Jesus. Praise God. Lost is actually a mistranslation, the real translation of the word in Greek is Rune, as in Ruins that are falling apart and being prepared to burn in the furnace. As for preordaining people for fire, actually hell was originally made for the devil and his angels, "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels." (Matthew 25:41). However, those who refuse to receive the free gift of God's Grace through Jesus Christ the God Man are destined for the Second Death (Revelation 21:8, Revelation 20:15). The problem is when man sinned (Genesis 3) he took on Satan's nature: rebellion towards God, and this rebellious nature (sin) leads to death [spiritually and physically] and specifically in the end the Second Death, because sin inevitably leads people way from the Lord. God does not desire anyone to perish and go to hell (2 Peter 3:9, 1 Timothy 2:4, Romans 2:4) and His has provided a way to be saved: "Now this is eternal life, that they may know (Ginosko, personally know) You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent," (John 17:3, cross ref Matthew 7:21-23), "For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day," (John 6:40), and "All who confess that Jesus is the Son of God have God living in them, and they live in God." (1 John 4:15). And yet there are many who will refuse no matter what to believe and confess and know Jesus (Revelation 16:9). I like to explain it this way, God the Trinity is having a Birthday party (wedding supper if you prefer) and he has sent out RSVPs to everyone, and those who RSVP are those that know Him the Bridegroom, "And again Jesus spoke to them in parables, saying, 2 “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who gave a wedding feast for his Son, 3 and sent his servants[a] to call those who were invited to the wedding feast, but they would not come. 4 Again he sent other servants, saying, ‘Tell those who are invited, “See, I have prepared my dinner, my oxen and my fat calves have been slaughtered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding feast.”’ 5 But they paid no attention and went off, one to his farm, another to his business, 6 while the rest seized his servants, treated them shamefully, and killed them. 7 The king was angry, and he sent his troops and destroyed those murderers and burned their city. 8 Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding feast is ready, but those invited were not worthy. 9 Go therefore to the main roads and invite to the wedding feast as many as you find.’ 10 And those servants went out into the roads and gathered all whom they found, both bad and good. So the wedding hall was filled with guests. But when the king came in to look at the guests, he saw there a man who had no wedding garment. 12 And he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you get in here without a wedding garment?’ And he was speechless. 13 Then the king said to the attendants, ‘Bind him hand and foot and cast him into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’ 14 For many are called, but few are chosen." (Matthew 22:1-14). The invite is sent to every soul on earth, but I ask you this do you let people attend your birthday or even wedding day that hate you, despise you, and what nothing to do with you? Of course not! So why would we expect God to invite to eternity and His Wedding Supper people who rejected Him and refuse to love Him back and believe in Him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogner Posted September 22, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 562 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 268 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/27/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted September 22, 2017 21 minutes ago, Sojourner414 said: John 3:16 and Jesus' comment from the cross "forgive them father, for they know not what they do" seem to answer the question. "Jesus said,“Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.” And they divided up his clothes by casting lots." Luke 23:34 Any idea who he's talking about? Jesus is talking about Romans. They do not know what they are doing. It's not about sinners referred to above in (Rom 3:10-18) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogner Posted September 22, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 562 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 268 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/27/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted September 22, 2017 7 hours ago, Yowm said: as it is written: "None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one." "Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive." "The venom of asps is under their lips." "Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness." "Their feet are swift to shed blood; in their paths are ruin and misery, and the way of peace they have not known." "There is no fear of God before their eyes." (Rom 3:10-18) ...Yet Jesus loved/died for ones such as us. Jesus died for all sinners - Yes. He loved unrepentant sinners who hate him - No You never be able to prove otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogner Posted September 22, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 562 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 268 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/27/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted September 22, 2017 8 hours ago, frienduff thaylorde said: Love sure aint what many have made it out to be. The Love that comes from GOD.............LOVES TRUTH and every word of it. Jesus did also say Love thy neighbor. the entire point is...........if we truly have the LOVE on our hearts that comes from GOD. THEN we love Christ above all things, ALL THINGS. and from this love we are able to love , NOT as the world does , but as God does. Is God's love conditional or unconditional? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogner Posted September 22, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 562 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 268 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/27/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted September 22, 2017 9 hours ago, Wayne222 said: Jesus said I tell you love your enemy. Just because some will perish does not mean God did not love them. He sent his son to die for them on the cross. He will destroy them because all sin will be destroyed. They cannot remain in sin forever. God would have them come to repentance but he does not force others to love him. Otherwise they would be robots. Whom should we love? criminals, murderer, burglar, rapist... ? Which kinds of enemies we must demonstrate love? In Romans 12:20 Paul quotes the words of Proverbs 25:21 "If your enemy is hungry, give him food to eat;" Hebrew text versions are used word (נַאֲךָ) saw-nay' - adversary, opponent Then compare with Exodus 15:9 "The enemy boasted, ‘I will pursue, I will overtake them. I will divide the spoils; I will " Hebrew text - (אֹויֵב) o-yabe' - enemy combatant If your [(נַאֲךָ) saw-nay' ] is hungry, give him food to eat. But if your [(אֹויֵב) o-yabe'] is hungry, leave him alone. Now about guilty to crimes Exodus 20:13 "You shall not murder." Hebrew text - (תִּֿרְצָֽח׃) raw-tsakh' - murder. Bible say about guilty to crimes. How do we define them and what should we do with them? (Numbers 35:16, 21, 31; and Deuteronomy 22:25) Deuteronomy 13:9 "you must kill him without fail!" Bible say about killing in war Numbers 31:7 " They fought against Midian, as the Lord commanded Moses, and killed every man. " Hebrew text - (תַּֽהַרְגֶנּוּ) haw-rag' -kill, put them to death. You shall not murder [(תִּֿרְצָֽח׃) raw-tsakh' ] but you must kill[ (תַּֽהַרְגֶנּוּ) haw-rag' ] the guilty criminal sinners. Unrepentant sinners loved sins rather than Jesus. They hated him and rejects salvation. "The one who rejects the Son will not see life, but God’s wrath remains on him." John 3:36 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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