Once Saved always Saved, Is A Doctrine Of Devils

[Mike 2]

1 minute ago, 4LdKHVCzRDj2 said:

This is all about abiding in the true vine, which is Jesus Christ.

"Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me." - John 15:4

 

Those who are in Him bears fruit:

"I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing." - John 15:5

 

And those who are not in Him cannot bear fruit:

"If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned." - John 15:6

I like these! They reinforce what Jesus was saying about the sowing of the seed. If we don't follow him, listen to him....abide in him, we cannot produce fruitful work for the Kingdom.

He is not only our Savior but our Lord that gives good direction that can benefit others (produce fruit) if we listen.

[Your closest friendnt]

43 minutes ago, Mike 2 said:

 

I believe that both Your closest friendt and the other poster are referring to the same verses but I think it is important to notice that in verse 23 that the person that bears fruit is the one that understands. Some hear the word but don't get how it can not only save them but transform their life. The others hear the word accept it but don't work out their salvation to produce fruit, just because someone is not producing fruit doesn't mean they aren't saved, although it makes you wonder.

This can't be used to argue that we can lose our salvation as this is talking about how people deal with receiving the words of Jesus and living in the Kingdom.

The ones that "fell away" are falling away from Jesus teachings on how to live a life through the lens of the Kingdom.

Can we take a look at what Peter was talking about in the passage you mentioned?  What was it?

You have touch some good issues, and you some very good points. 

I believe that one thing we all need to be careful is not to think that we got it and we have figure everything out. 

One of the most abuse words is the word " Saved", and "the Kingdom of God". 

So I use the word " redeemed". 

There is even something better which is in the frase " have you chosen life or death". 

It is important before we even ask this question to introduce that the author of life is Jesus Christ. 

To choose life it is to believe in Jesus Christ. 

To choose death is to refuse to believe in Jesus Christ the life giver. 

The question to a believer is not do you obey Jesus Christ, because the fact that someone believes is proof that he has obey Jesus Christ who says believe in me " I am the door to the Father in Heaven", and also by believing in Jesus Christ he has obey God who says , believe in Jesus Christ who died for the forgiveness of our sins, and who was raised from the dead and rules from the Throne of God. 

Now we can go to a totally diferent area, and we should not comfuse the two, we must see them for a different propose. 

One time I went to a church and they ask me many questions and all at the same time.

Are you Saved?

Are you born again? 

If you die today , do you know if you are going Heaven? 

I said You tell me, I believe in Jesus Christ. 

No one asked me if. I believe in Jesus Christ, and this is the message to preach Jesus on the Cross and Crucified and raised from the dead. 

When I said I believe, someone said the Devill believes. 

Do you see how comfuse people are, sugesting what , that Jesus died to redeemed both man and the devil, Jesus died to redeemed mankind and judge the devil. 

 

[JTC]

30 minutes ago, Mike 2 said:

You say salvation is based on our obeying Jesus. What does that look like?

I hope you're quite young, a new Christian, or you don't read the Bible. There are dozens or maybe hundreds of scriptures that tell you what this looks like. Remember Jesus said if you obey Him you have to obey the Father too. Jesus tried to make it simple by saying love you fellow man as yourself. Like in the parable of the good Samaritan. Ever get a speeding ticket you don't think you deserved. Did you pray for the cop. Just an example.

Ultimately it's up to Jesus who gets eternal life. He died an awful death for that right. He wasn't a lawyer and He's not going to play lawyer because many people are going to say to Him, But I accepted You. What exactly does it mean to accept Jesus? It's a lot more than believing He died for your sins. Read 1 Corinthians ch 3. And bear in mind Paul expected Jesus back any day. Paul may have also believed belief was enough. More likely if Paul told the people you can't sin anymore he would have lost many converts. Whenever Paul and Jesus don't agree I go with Jesus. Some preachers are finally beginning to say you have to do what the Bible says. They're still reluctant because they make a living preaching. What will happen if they say no sex unless you're married. No homosexuality. No tattoos. No swimsuits that cling so tight everyone knows what you got. No Halloween. Feed the poor. If you have 5 coats give a few to the homeless.

Jesus also said be perfect as your Father in perfect. Maybe none of us will ever be perfect but we must try.

Then we have chronicle liars. Other than their insistent lying many of these people aren't bad. But if I get to heaven I don't want to see these people there. I know several. They're not murderers, but I can never feel sure of what they say. It's up to Jesus what to do with them, not me. This list can go on and on. Treat your fellow human the way you want you want to be treated. I guess liars like being lied to. Me. I hate it.

Read the NT slowly. It will know your socks off. It took me close to 30 yrs to believe the Bible and not some preacher. 

[4LdKHVCzRDj2]

What impresses me is the huge amount of people who try to find a hole to go back practicing sin. And I tell you, if you repented and accepted Jesus as Lord and Saviour: It is over.

"And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires." - Galatians 5:24

"Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts." - Romans 6:12

 

And what I mean by "it is over", is that sin and flesh have no dominion over you anymore. Unless, obviously, if you repented in vain.

"Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you are disqualified." - 2 Corinthians 13:5

 

"For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps
    "Who committed no sin,
    Nor was deceit found in His mouth" - 1 Peter 2:21-22

 

Let us stop with this and focus on Christ, and how we can grow in Him.

"Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God" - Hebrews 6:1

 

We know very well what is good and what is not, what is from the devil and what is from God. Grow in Christ.

"Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice.
And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you." - Ephesians 4:31-32

 

"It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life." - John 6:63

[frienduff thaylorde]

14 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Your meaning of "Grace"is not correct. 

The scripture does not say: 

God so love the world that he sent Grace to save the world. 

......he sent his only begoten Son Jesus Christ to die on the Cross for the forgivness of our sins. 

Whoever believes in him is redeemed. And has the eternal life, which eternal life is Jesus. 

I did not give you scriptures, I just wanted to bring them to your memmory. 

It does not say that from now on you will fellowship with the light only. The first moment someone believes. 

Jesus redeems people who are deep up to their neck in fellowship with the darkness, and his aim is less darkness in them and more light. Or to reduse the darkness in them and increase the light. According to everyone's situation. 

One is deep into his own world, whatever it is, if it is a world of carefull disipline living, the Holy Spirit guidance from within is different to the one with a different and perhaps opposite lifestyle. 

To the murderer the Holy Spirit will guide not to murder and so on. 

But to the non-murderer the Holy Spirit has some other guidance, he has proposed to himself not to murder. 

He is guiding everyone  from within, as he has promise. 

According to his wisdom and not your moral code. 

Your code is good for you. 

Paul reproved those righteous people who judge the other believers by their code of righteousness. 

He said to them not to do it. 

He did not tell them for them to change, but he told them ; 

Of course you can judge them and that's good, you can discern good for bad, then do not do what the people you have judge are doing. 

But do not take the name of the Lord Jesus in vain. 

Do not say that your judgement is his judgement for them. 

For your selfs yes, because he said by the way you judge you will be judge.  

He makes the distinction there and he makes it very specific for everyone and not the same. 

That's why he said ; 

" I will put my laws in your heart". 

With his Holy Spirit from within. 

We are in the new covenant, and not in the old, the stone tablets, because their hearts were cold, but our hearts are warm with the Spirit of God. 

He is the Lord, he guides from within. His judgement is not the same as our judgement, of coarse he is not blind, but he guides not according to ourway. 

He said his burden , the yolk he put on us is something we can carry, he said it is lite, it is easy, so let us not put all our righteousness as a requirement upon others and all at once. 

 

Your meaning of "Grace"is not correct. 

IS it.  then lets at least take a look at the bibcal word for word use of what Grace is.

FOR the grace of GOD which brings salvation has appeared , TEACHING ,   oh yeah, TEACHING us to deny ungodliness and wordly lusts

to be walking soberly righteously and godly in this present world.

JESUS came to set us FREE from SIN.  FREE.   HE came to set the captives free.

Being then made FREE from sin , YE became servants to RIGHTEOUSNESS

if you like I will FLOOD this place with SOUND BIBLE doctrine to support this.    Its not men nor their ideas I follow, THEY get tested the same AS I SHOULD

ITS JESUS ONLY that gets followed.    Grace draws us, for its the SPIRIT of God that draws us to Christ , to FAITH IN HIM.

by which we have CONTINUED access into this grace wherin we walk.     Jesus came to set captives free, NOT TO FEEL FREE or saved IN SIN, FREE FROM ITS POWER.

[Mike 2]

33 minutes ago, JTC said:

I hope you're quite young, a new Christian, or you don't read the Bible. There are dozens or maybe hundreds of scriptures that tell you what this looks like. Remember Jesus said if you obey Him you have to obey the Father too. Jesus tried to make it simple by saying love you fellow man as yourself. Like in the parable of the good Samaritan. Ever get a speeding ticket you don't think you deserved. Did you pray for the cop. Just an example.

Ultimately it's up to Jesus who gets eternal life. He died an awful death for that right. He wasn't a lawyer and He's not going to play lawyer because many people are going to say to Him, But I accepted You. What exactly does it mean to accept Jesus? It's a lot more than believing He died for your sins. Read 1 Corinthians ch 3. And bear in mind Paul expected Jesus back any day. Paul may have also believed belief was enough. More likely if Paul told the people you can't sin anymore he would have lost many converts. Whenever Paul and Jesus don't agree I go with Jesus. Some preachers are finally beginning to say you have to do what the Bible says. They're still reluctant because they make a living preaching. What will happen if they say no sex unless you're married. No homosexuality. No tattoos. No swimsuits that cling so tight everyone knows what you got. No Halloween. Feed the poor. If you have 5 coats give a few to the homeless.

Jesus also said be perfect as your Father in perfect. Maybe none of us will ever be perfect but we must try.

Then we have chronicle liars. Other than their insistent lying many of these people aren't bad. But if I get to heaven I don't want to see these people there. I know several. They're not murderers, but I can never feel sure of what they say. It's up to Jesus what to do with them, not me. This list can go on and on. Treat your fellow human the way you want you want to be treated. I guess liars like being lied to. Me. I hate it.

Read the NT slowly. It will know your socks off. It took me close to 30 yrs to believe the Bible and not some preacher. 

Quoting JTC....Ultimately it's up to Jesus who gets eternal life.

Rom 10:9  that if you will confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 

There does not appear to be a condition attached to this. No indication here that it is ultimately up to Jesus.

Now, having said that. It is the work of Jesus that justifies us Heb 10:10  by which will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all  ....but once Jesus did that Heb 10:12  but he, when he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right hand of God; ....he sat down, his work was done.

Don't mistake Jesus judging as him deciding who gets eternal life, that's not it at all!! He is judging who has eternal life! Who has accepted the gift. That's what Mathew 25 is about. Because he is the only one that knows the heart of men, he is the only one that can make that judgement call.

 

 Quoting JTC.....Whenever Paul and Jesus don't agree I go with Jesus. 

If Paul, or any of the other writers seem to disagree with Jesus it has to be a misunderstanding on our part. If it were not then the bible would fall apart being riddled with doubt about what is or isn't truth. No, if there is a perceived contradiction, we just don't completely understand what the writer is saying and we need to meditate on it and discuss it.

I think it is going to be incredible when I get to heaven and I see all the liars, cheaters, murderers and whatever kind of sinners (heaven will be full of nothing but sinners) I think it is going to be wonderful seeing people that I was sure were going to hell.

It will be wonderful because it will mean that they realized their sin and that they had to reach to God and repent. WOW what a change of heart, God is good. 

I tell you that even so there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents, than over ninety-nine righteous people who need no repentance. Luk_15:7  

 

[simplejeff]

2 minutes ago, Mike 2 said:

Because he is the only one that knows the heart of men, he is the only one that can make that judgement call.

AND to whomever the Father reveals it.

[Mike 2]

3 minutes ago, simplejeff said:

AND to whomever the Father reveals it.

What is that verse?

And what is "it"?

Edited October 25, 2017 by Mike 2

[maybethien]

Great topic. I'be learned so much from all the posts.

[simplejeff]

There's a few dozen, maybe more, here:

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