Predictions

[Psalms37:4]

2 hours ago, Last Daze said:

Christ is coming for those who belong to Him, not for those who "wish to partake in" a pre-trib theory.

• For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.  But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming.  1 Corinthians 15:22-23

"Those who are Christ's" is not determined by which type of "trib" they subscribe to, but rather which type of lifestyle they engage in, godly or worldly.

• Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.  Galatians 5:24

Pretty straightforward.

How do you know who are all those who call themselves a Christian belongs to Him? He's not coming to rapture everyone that calls themselves a Christian.

Who are all these people who calls Him "Lord Lord!" Do Muslims call Jesus their Lord? No! Do Atheists call Jesus their Lord? No! Do people of all other religions call Jesus their Lord? No! Everyone in Matthew 7:15-23 are Christians. Only Christians call Jesus our Lord.

Matthew 7:15-23 New King James Version (NKJV)

¹⁵ “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. ¹⁶ You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? ¹⁷ Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. ¹⁸ A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. ¹⁹ Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. ²⁰ Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

²¹ “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. ²² Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ ²³ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

 

Why do you think I keep arguing with a few of you on Worthy constantly telling you to stop promoting false doctrines? It doesn't matter if you call yourself a Christian, if you knowingly and deliberately promote anything contrary to the bible, you can forget about being rapture (1 Thes 4:16-17) and your salvation (John 3:16). 

Revelation 21:8 New King James Version (NKJV)

⁸ But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

 

 

Those who refuse to follow the truth (what's written in the bible) will suffer God's wrath.

Romans 2:5-11 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)

⁵ But you are so stubborn! You refuse to change. So you are making your own punishment greater and greater. You will be punished on the day when God will show his anger. On that day everyone will see how right God is to judge people. ⁶ He will reward or punish everyone for what they have done. ⁷ Some people live for God’s glory, for honor, and for life that cannot be destroyed. They live for those things by always continuing to do good. God will give eternal life to them. ⁸ But others are selfish and refuse to follow truth. They follow evil. God will show his anger and punish them. ⁹ He will give trouble and suffering to everyone who does evil—to the Jews first and also to those who are not Jews. ¹⁰ But he will give glory, honor, and peace to everyone who does good—to the Jews first and also to those who are not Jews. ¹¹ God judges everyone the same. It doesn’t matter who they are.

 

Unless your righteous is better than the leaders in the church, you're not going to heaven. Not during the rapture, not after you die either, no salvation.

Matthew 5:20 New King James Version (NKJV)

²⁰ For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

 

You just can't accept Christ's gift of salvation and think it's a one and done deal, and say to yourself I don't have to do anything else.

Matthew 18:3-4New King James Version (NKJV)

³ and said, “Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. ⁴ Therefore whoever humbles himself as this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

 

Those taken in the rapture participating in the marriage supper are wearing robes reflecting their acts of righteousness.

Revelation 19:7-8 New King James Version (NKJV)

⁷ Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.” ⁸ And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.

 

I'll say this again, nobody goes to heaven unless their acts of righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and pharisees. You can forget about the rapture. All those in heaven during the marriage supper didn't stand around doing nothing while on earth. And those promoting false doctrines, they'll be in real trouble. And when Jesus returns to judge everyone, this is what He'll say to those Christians who calls Him "Lord" having done nothing amounting to righteousness.

 

Matthew 25:31-46 New King James Version (NKJV)

³¹ “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.³² All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. ³³ And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. ³⁴ Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: ³⁵ for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; ³⁶ I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’

³⁷ “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? ³⁸ When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? ³⁹ Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ ⁴⁰ And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’

⁴¹ “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: ⁴² for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; ⁴³ I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

⁴⁴ “Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ ⁴⁵ Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ ⁴⁶ And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

 

You actually think you already belong to Him as in home free? Without having to do anything to prepare yourself for His return? Boy! You're in for a rude awakening. You're not the one who makes that decision. He decides who He'll accept when He returns. He decides all judgment for everything for the next 1000 years. Matthew 28:18

You, your job is to make yourself ready, and pray daily you'll be counted worthy and acceptable when He comes for His bride.

Luke 21:36 New King James Version (NKJV)

³⁶ Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

 

Of the 7 churches mentioned in Revelation 2-3, only two churches were worthy to escape God's wrath. The other 5 Christ tells them unless they change, they'll be part of the tribulation. He rejected 5 of the 7 churches. Don't kid yourself thinking all Christians will be rapture.

To the church of Ephesus:

Revelation 2:5 New King James Version (NKJV)

⁵ Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place—unless you repent.

 

To the church of Pergamos:

Revelation 2:16New King James Version (NKJV)

¹⁶ Repent, or else I will come to you quickly and will fight against them with the sword of My mouth.

 

To the church of Thyatira:

Revelation 2:21-22 New King James Version (NKJV)

²¹ And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent.²² Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds.

 

To the church of Sardis:

Revelation 3:2-3 New King James Version (NKJV)

² Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before God. ³ Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you.

 

To the Lukewarm church:

Revelation 3:16 New King James Version (NKJV)

¹⁶ So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth.

 

It doesn't matter if you attend church regularly or call yourself a Christian, if you fall into any of these 5 categories of Christians, He's just reject you and send you somewhere you don't want to go. You might wanna think twice about who He calls His own and who truly belongs to Him. The voice of Jesus which is the holy spirit in us does not tell one group of Christians the timing of the rapture as one thing and than tell another group of Christians the timing is different.

One group of Christians has the right rapture view while the other does not. Those who do not, He's already prepared them desiring to go through the tribulation (Revelation 22:18-19) wanting to do with the Pre-Trib rapture. He's hidden the truth from those who refuse to follow the truth (the teachings in the bible). You know, those who love to promote something other than what's clearly written in the bible. 

 

John 10:14 New King James Version (NKJV)

¹⁴ I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own. 

 

John 10:27 New King James Version (NKJV)

²⁷ My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.

 

Revelation 22:18-19 New King James Version (NKJV)

¹⁸ For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; ¹⁹ and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

 

 

 

 

[Last Daze]

1 hour ago, Psalms37:4 said:

How do you know who are all those who call themselves a Christian belongs to Him? He's not coming to rapture everyone that calls themselves a Christian.

Who are all these people who calls Him "Lord Lord!" Do Muslims call Jesus their Lord? No! Do Atheists call Jesus their Lord? No! Do people of all other religions call Jesus their Lord? No! Everyone in Matthew 7:15-23 are Christians. Only Christians call Jesus our Lord.

Re-read my post.  Focus in on Galatians 5:24.  I never said anything about those who call themselves Christians.

Christ is coming back for those who belong to Him.  Those who belong to Him have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.  Jesus knows who they are, and they know Him.  It has everything to do with lifestyle worship, and nothing to do with belonging to a rapture club.  It's really sad that that even has to be said.

[Psalms37:4]

16 hours ago, Last Daze said:

Re-read my post.  Focus in on Galatians 5:24.  I never said anything about those who call themselves Christians.

Christ is coming back for those who belong to Him.  Those who belong to Him have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.  Jesus knows who they are, and they know Him.  It has everything to do with lifestyle worship, and nothing to do with belonging to a rapture club.  It's really sad that that even has to be said.

I was writing about Galatians 5 also. You should check and see what the characteristics of the flesh are when telling me to focus on Galatians 5:24. 

Galatians 5:19-24 New King James Version (NKJV)

¹⁹ Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, ²⁰ idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, ²¹ envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

²² But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, ²³ gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. ²⁴ And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

 

Do you see the word heresies in there? Christian who have crucified the flesh does not promote heresies. Why do you think I was telling you those who call themselves Christians and promote false doctrines are not of Christ and will not be accepted by Him when He comes for the church. 

Here it is again, Matthew 7:15-23. Not everyone that calls themselves a Christian will be rapture.

Matthew 7:15-23 New King James Version (NKJV)

¹⁵ “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. ¹⁶ You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? ¹⁷ Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. ¹⁸ A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. ¹⁹ Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. ²⁰ Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

²¹ “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. ²² Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ ²³ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

 

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Now let's talk about the post-trib rapture. Not only is the teaching not found in the bible, the bible actually refutes a post-trib rapture.

1) In Isaiah 26:19-27:1, the resurrection of the rapture happens before Christ leaves heaven to judge the world, not after.

Isaiah 26:19-27:1 New King James Version (NKJV)

¹⁹ Your dead shall live;
Together with my dead body they shall arise.
Awake and sing, you who dwell in dust;
For your dew is like the dew of herbs,
And the earth shall cast out the dead.

²⁰ Come, my people, enter your chambers,
And shut your doors behind you;
Hide yourself, as it were, for a little moment,
Until the indignation is past.

²¹ For behold, the Lord comes out of His place
To punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity;
The earth will also disclose her blood,
And will no more cover her slain.

27 In that day the Lord with His severe sword, great and strong,
Will punish Leviathan the fleeing serpent,
Leviathan that twisted serpent;
And He will slay the reptile that is in the sea.

 

2) In Revelation 20:4, those who died in the tribulation by not accepting the MoB nor follow the a/c are resurrected at the end of the tribulation. This completely refutes any possibility for the existence of a post-trib rapture. If there's already a resurrection at the end of the tribulation, why would Jesus rapture the church here?

The resurrection from the rapture would overlap the resurrection of Revelation 20:4. This is totally illogical to have two resurrections happen at the same time.

Revelation 20:4 Good News Translation (GNT)

⁴ Then I saw thrones, and those who sat on them were given the power to judge. I also saw the souls of those who had been executed because they had proclaimed the truth that Jesus revealed and the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image, nor had they received the mark of the beast on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and ruled as kings with Christ for a thousand years.

 

3) In Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27, the elects are also being gather from heaven. This is not a rapture as you can't rapture people already in heaven. 

Matthew 24:29-31 New King James Version (NKJV)

²⁹ “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. ³⁰ Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. ³¹ And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mark 13:24-27 New King James Version (NKJV)

²⁴ “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; ²⁵ the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. ²⁶ Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. ²⁷ And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven.

 

4) In 2 Thessalonians 2 & 3, during the second coming when Jesus comes to destroy the a/c, this happens in the second half of the tribulation. The a/c doesn't die after the tribulation. The a/c dies at the end of his 42 months putting the timing of the second coming still in the tribulation.

2 Thessalonians 1:6-2:3 New King James Version (NKJV)

⁶ since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, ⁷ and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, ⁸ in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. ⁹ These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, ¹⁰ when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed.

¹¹ Therefore we also pray always for you that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfill all the good pleasure of His goodness and the work of faith with power, ¹² that the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and you in Him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, ² not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. ³ Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,

 

5) Jesus comes during Armageddon, that's revealed in Revelation 16:15-16. Since when does the battle of Armageddon take place after the tribulation? Armageddon is the 6th bowl, which puts His coming during the tribulation, not after.

Revelation 16:15-16 New King James Version (NKJV)

¹⁵ “Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.”

¹⁶ And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon.

 

6) Does the coming in Luke 21:25-27 sound like the coming in Matthew 24:29-31? The coming in Matthew 24:29-31 is after the tribulation. In the coming of Luke 21:25-27, people are having heart attacks from expectations of things to come upon the earth. Luke 21:25-27 is not after the tribulation.

In the scene of Matthew 24:29-31, Christ has been on earth for awhile. Matthew 24:29-31 is the end of the second coming.

Matthew 24:29-31 New King James Version (NKJV)

²⁹ “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. ³⁰ Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. ³¹ And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Luke 21:25-27 New King James Version (NKJV)

²⁵ “And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; ²⁶ men’s hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. ²⁷ Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

 

7) In Hebrews 12:22-29, the church is seen taken into heaven before God before He shakes heaven and earth by fire, which is the coming tribulation. If the church is taken into heaven here, there can't be a post-trib rapture.

Hebrews 12:22-29 New King James Version (NKJV)

²² But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, ²³ to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, ²⁴ to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

²⁵ See that you do not refuse Him who speaks. For if they did not escape who refused Him who spoke on earth, much more shall we not escape if we turn away from Him who speaks from heaven, ²⁶ whose voice then shook the earth; but now He has promised, saying, “Yet once more I shake not only the earth, but also heaven.” ²⁷ Now this, “Yet once more,” indicates the removal of those things that are being shaken, as of things that are made, that the things which cannot be shaken may remain.

²⁸ Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us have grace, by which we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear. ²⁹ For our God is a consuming fire.

 

8) If Christ is coming the second time for salvation, how can there be salvation from the tribulation if people have to go through the entire tribulation?

Hebrews 9:28 New King James Version (NKJV)

²⁸ so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.

Hebrews 9:28 (ESV) so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

Hebrews 9:28 (NIV) so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

 

9) We're not appointed to God's wrath. We don't have to go through the tribulation as the post trib theory teaches.

 1 Thessalonians 5:9 New King James Version (NKJV)

⁹ For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

 

10) We're not appointed to God's wrath. We don't have to go through the tribulation as the post trib theory teaches.

Romans 5:9 New King James Version (NKJV)

⁹ Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.

Romans 5:9 (ESV) Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.

Romans 5:9 (NIV) Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him!

 

Now you see the scriptures. Bottom line, anyone "deliberately" promoting a post-trib rapture contradicts the bible and have not crucified the lust of the flesh and it's desires (Galatians 5:24).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Last Daze]

Be careful of the measure that you set when you define heresy.  You wouldn't want to inadvertently disqualify yourself.

Let me leave you with a couple of verses to reflect on.

• However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.  Romans 8:9
• For if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.  For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.  Romans 8:13-14

Man-made eschatology is fraught with compounded error and I have no desire to become entangled in arguing over words.  The resurrection / changing and gathering to Him happens on the last day, at the last trumpet which is the trumpet of God.  That is scriptural, and that is what I believe.

Jesus is returning for those who belong to Him (1 Corinthians 15:23).  Those who belong to Him have the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:9).  Those who belong to Him are being led by the indwelling Holy Spirit to put to death the deeds of the flesh (Romans 8:13-14).

In summary: Those who belong to Jesus are those who worship God by walking in the Spirit and put to death the deeds of the flesh.  They are the ones that do His will and they are the ones He will make immortal when He returns.

The following quote of yours is contrived from man-made eschatology and is such an egregious error that I had to respond.

On 10/29/2017 at 2:41 AM, Psalms37:4 said:

The only topic I'm willing to fight with tooth and nails is on the timing of the rapture. This is the only topic on the end times Christ told us some will lose their salvation from being saved from God's wrath. Christ will not rapture those who does not wish to partake in the Pre-Trib rapture. Unfortunately He won't over right people's free will. 

That's all I have to say on this matter.  People can make up their own minds.

[Justin Adams]

10 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

The following quote of yours is contrived from man-made eschatology and is such an egregious error that I had to respond.

On 10/29/2017 at 7:41 AM, Psalms37:4 said:

The only topic I'm willing to fight with tooth and nails is on the timing of the rapture. This is the only topic on the end times Christ told us some will lose their salvation from being saved from God's wrath. Christ will not rapture those who does not wish to partake in the Pre-Trib rapture. Unfortunately He won't over right people's free will. 

That's all I have to say on this matter.  People can make up their own minds.

Agreed. Mr. Darby's ideas have been swallowed so readily - how can that be a salvation issue? Ugh, the doctrines of men!

[Serving]

3 hours ago, Psalms37:4 said:

 

9) We're not appointed to God's wrath. We don't have to go through the tribulation as the post trib theory teaches.

 1 Thessalonians 5:9 New King James Version (NKJV)

⁹ For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

 

10) We're not appointed to God's wrath. We don't have to go through the tribulation as the post trib theory teaches.

Romans 5:9 New King James Version (NKJV)

⁹ Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.

Romans 5:9 (ESV) Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.

Romans 5:9 (NIV) Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him!

 

Now you see the scriptures. Bottom line, anyone "deliberately" promoting a post-trib rapture contradicts the bible and have not crucified the lust of the flesh and it's desires (Galatians 5:24).

Hi Psalms 37:4,

Just want to say that the wrath of God is NOT the same as the tribulation of the saints.

The tribulation of the saints is Satan warring against the saints through his man of sin who is coming with his mark of the beast system .. and scripture even warns the saints this tribulation is coming AGAINST them, and tells the SAINTS to be strong TIL THE END being prepared to DIE for God .. and that all those SAINTS who do this WILL receive the crown of life .. guaranteed. 

The wrath of God however, is against ALL those who took the mark of the beast and worshipped the beast and his image.

THEY are not the same at all .. 

Tribulation of the saints is from Satan against the saints

Wrath of God is from God against the ungodly

Thank you.

 

[Daniel 11:36]

All of the tribulation is from the Lord [Revelation 6:12-17]

[Shilohsfoal]

3 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

All of the tribulation is from the Lord [Revelation 6:12-17]

Earthquakes and the sky departing from,the earth like a scroll being rolled together are the effects of a nuclear explosion.

Those are not literal stars falling to the ground.If they were there would be an earth for them,to fall too.They could be nuclear missiles though.

[Psalms37:4]

18 hours ago, Last Daze said:

Jesus is returning for those who belong to Him (1 Corinthians 15:23).  Those who belong to Him have the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:9).  Those who belong to Him are being led by the indwelling Holy Spirit to put to death the deeds of the flesh (Romans 8:13-14).

In summary: Those who belong to Jesus are those who worship God by walking in the Spirit and put to death the deeds of the flesh.  They are the ones that do His will and they are the ones He will make immortal when He returns.

Oh how lost and mislead you are thinking Jesus is coming for those with only the holy spirit. It'll take a lot more than just having the holy spirit in you to be rapture (1 Thess 4:16-17) or saved (John 3:16). You need to be sanctified and bear much good fruit till the end.

First off, anyone with the holy spirit can fall away, apostate. Why do you think Jesus told us "those who endure till the end shall be saved" (Matthew 24:13) or Paul telling us "everyone must run the race" (1 Corinthians 9:24).

Hebrews 6:4-6 New King James Version (NKJV)

⁴ For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, ⁵ and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, ⁶ if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

 

Again, I have to show you this scripture. These are the ones He's coming for when He returns. It's the ones who bears much good fruits. READ IT!!! READ IT!!! READ IT!!! Don't make me post this a 3rd time. This is how He'll judge us all and what He'll be looking for in each of us.

Matthew 25:31-46 New King James Version (NKJV)

³¹ “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. ³² All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. ³³ And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. ³⁴ Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: ³⁵ for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; ³⁶ I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’

³⁷ “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? ³⁸ When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? ³⁹ Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’⁴⁰ And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’

⁴¹ “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: ⁴² for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; ⁴³ I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

⁴⁴ “Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ ⁴⁵ Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ ⁴⁶ And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

 

Those taken into heaven during the rapture are there because of what they've done as Christians following the holy spirit, examples given in Matthew 25:31-46. They have good fruits to show forth by their acts of righteousness.

Revelation 19:7-8 New King James Version (NKJV)

⁷ Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.” ⁸ And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.

 

Nobody goes to heaven unless their righteousness exceeds those of scribes and pharisees of the law. 

Matthew 5:20 New King James Version (NKJV)

²⁰ For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

 

What good is having the holy spirit if you don't produce fruit? What good is having the holy spirit if you fall away? In fact, what good is the holy spirit to anyone if they don't abide in Christ?

John 15:5-6 New King James Version (NKJV)

⁵ “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.⁶ If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.

Matthew 7:19 New King James Version (NKJV)

¹⁹ Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

 

Receiving the holy spirit is only the beginning of your journey. Having the holy spirit is the first step at sanctification. Nothing about you from the inside has changed that day you receive the holy spirit as you're still carnal following the flesh at that time. What you're doing is put too much emphasis on receiving the holy spirit but nothing about working with the holy spirit.  Jesus isn't coming for those who have the indwelling of the holy spirit in them. He'll be looking for those who has a certain minimum level of acts of righteousness which are reflections of their good fruits.

You reap what you sow. No sow, no rapture. (1 Thes 4:16-17) No salvation either. (John 3:16) Receiving the holy spirit is good but that's just the start. What you do with the holy spirit determines your salvation.

Some Christians choose to fall away. Some Christians choose to do nothing thinking they're eternally saved.  Some Christians choose to produce good fruit knowing this is the way, the narrow way. Which Christian are you? What you do with the holy spirit determines your salvation. Love your neighbor: Matthew 25:34-40.

Luke 8:11-15 New King James Version (NKJV)

¹¹ “Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. ¹² Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. ¹³ But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. ¹⁴ Now the ones that fell among thorns are those who, when they have heard, go out and are choked with cares, riches, and pleasures of life, and bring no fruit to maturity. ¹⁵ But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience.

 

 

 

18 hours ago, Last Daze said:

The following quote of yours is contrived from man-made eschatology and is such an egregious error that I had to respond.

It's not man made, you're just ignorant and too close minded to understand what Christ is telling us here heeding His warning about the rapture. I'll say again what I said from the post you quoted me.

Revelation 3:10-11 New King James Version (NKJV)

¹⁰ Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. ¹¹ Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown.

Christ is talking about the rapture in Rev 3:10. Underneath what Rev 3:11 say on the surface, it's telling us some will be mislead by others into believing they must go through the tribulation, missing the Pre-Trib rapture and eventually lose their crown and other rewards during the Bema Seat in heaven. 

We've already lost a lot of Christians to the antichrist by accepting the post-trib rapture thinking they must endure the great tribulation in order to be saved from listening to others promoting this idea. Basically, the size of His flock He will come to rapture dwindles, and the number of saints handed over to the a/c for the 42 months during the tribulation increases. 

 

 

18 hours ago, Last Daze said:

That's all I have to say on this matter.  People can make up their own minds.

I tend to believe it's for another reason. So any time you wish to debate the existence of the post-trib rapture in the bible, just say the word. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Psalms37:4]

19 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

Agreed. Mr. Darby's ideas have been swallowed so readily - how can that be a salvation issue? Ugh, the doctrines of men!

Do you know why I posted Hebrews 9:28 in two other translations in modern English that's easier to understand as you can see below?

It's because I knew Hebrews 9:28 would go over someone's head. Good of you to stand up. In Hebrews 9:28, Paul wasn't addressing salvation as in John 3:16 simply because the word salvation is used in the NKJV. Paul was writing about salvation as in not having to go through the tribulation and endure God's wrath. 

And John Darby never debated or wrote against the post-trib rapture either during his time in 1830. It wasn't invented yet. 

 

23 hours ago, Psalms37:4 said:

8) If Christ is coming the second time for salvation, how can there be salvation from the tribulation if people have to go through the entire tribulation?

Hebrews 9:28 New King James Version (NKJV)

²⁸ so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.

Hebrews 9:28 (ESV) so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

Hebrews 9:28 (NIV) so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.