Did Jesus die on the 4000th year?

[Keras]

2 hours ago, ayin jade said:

Gotquestions is not an ultimate authority however it happens to agree with my view, and since I got some info from them (the dates) I posted my source. Others posted sources and you didnt get snippy with them.

You presented the date of 27 AD, as fact, without any historical or Biblical support for your view. 

22 minutes ago, Abdicate said:

Yes, and it's wrong. That's why I didn't bother with it...

Your opinion; made because it proves your timeline wrong. Tough!  I used 47 Bible verses, plus two indisputable historical dates. They are wrong?  Please show me which verse or historical date is wrong. 

I regret having to be a little forceful at times, but when I see blatant misuse of scripture and twisting of provable facts, then I am obliged to refute them. 

[Keras]

Thank you, Abdicate. 

We will all know the truth soon, as the 6000th year clicks over.  Going to be very interesting indeed!

BTW, I have read your timeline, you have posted it elsewhere.  I disagree with it.     I also note that you don't attempt to refute me with scripture, but the 47 scriptures in #3 refute you. 

Edited October 29, 2017 by Keras

[Keras]

14 minutes ago, Abdicate said:

Finally, I didn't trust online "Christian" calendars, I wrote one of my own. In fact, the number one country to use it is Israel. I had it tested against 500 known dates and it passed every one of them. Your "TorahCalendar" folks are wrong, they know it, and do nothing to fix it. But now that we have the Sanhedrin back in place in Israel, the calendar will change making mine obsolete, as it should be, because it was written down by Rabbi Akiva after the Romans destroyed the temple knowing that the oral traditions would be lost. His calendar is still in use today, as its use is in violation of the word of God.

I use the Gregorian calendar. The modern one we all use. I never even mention the Jewish [messed up] calendar. 

14 minutes ago, Abdicate said:

Are you making an assumption about the 6000th year?

No. The 7000 year plan of God for mankind is a provable fact, as most ECF's and modern scholars agree and I have shown in my Bible based timeline. 6000 years for mans rule, then 1000 years for Jesus as King.  We are within 12/13 years of the end of mans era. 

[Keras]

Abdicate, we are in fact, pretty much in agreement over the calendar issue and the 7000 year Plan of God. 

I would like to point out, however, that calendars are just a tool for us to use for identifying our position in time.  What is really important is how the Biblical time periods add up to the fact of us being as of now, 5988 years from Adam. 

1 hour ago, Abdicate said:

This is further implied by God in Genesis 6:3. Only Moses lived to be 120 as recorded in the word of God. The implied thought is 120 Jubilees or literally "cycle of ages". 120 x 50 = 6000. Jesus began His ministry in Jubilee 80.

Sorry to say, you make a mistake here. Jubilee's are every 49 years. The 50th year is the Jubilee year and is also the first year of the next 7 times 7 year Sabbath cycle.

Edited October 29, 2017 by Keras

[When Is Jesus Coming?]

12 hours ago, ayin jade said:

What you claim contradicts scripture. 

According to Luke 3:1, John the Baptist began his ministry in the 15th year of Tiberius Caesar’s reign. Tiberius was appointed as co-regent with Augustus in AD 11, and 15 years later would be AD 26. Jesus began His ministry shortly thereafter at approximately the age of thirty (Luke 3:23). This gives us a basis upon which we can approximate what year Jesus began His public ministry: around AD 26.

According to John’s Gospel, Jesus attended at least three annual Feasts of Passover through the course of His ministry: one in John 2:13, another in 6:4, and then the Passover of His crucifixion in 11:55–57.

John 2:13 And the Passover of the Jews was near, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.

John 6:4 And the Passover was near, a feast of the Jews.

John 11:55 And the Jews' Passover was near. And many went out of the country up to Jerusalem before the Passover in order to purify themselves.

(Info obtained from gotquestions)

Tiberius had not taken over the country at all in fact under Augustus' direction Tiberius received the position of Quaestor which was a low ranking political position. 

Historians take reigns from when they are made official, Luke would have done like wise and as said it matches the other two dates that the Bible gives. (Did you read them in my post). 

 As for the 3 Passovers that too has been explained:  

John’s record of the Jewish feasts helps to build a chronology of Jesus’ ministry:

John 2:13
When it was almost time for the Jewish Passover, Jesus went up to Jerusalem.

John 5:1
After these things there was a feast of the Jews, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.

John 6:4
Now the Passover, the feast of the Jews, was near.

John 7:2 + 10
2 But when the Jewish Festival of Tabernacles was near, 10 he also went, not publicly, but in secret.

John 10:22
Then came the Festival of Dedication (Hanukkah) at Jerusalem. It was winter,

John 12:12-13
12 The next day the great crowd that had come for the festival (Passover) heard that Jesus was on his way to Jerusalem.

Clearly John thought these were important to record but this is only two years worth of festivals, unless the second unnamed feast is taken to be a Passover as well. However, this would just be speculation and it would also not make chronological sense of the feasts as they actually occur through the Jewish religious year i.e:

Passover, Shavuot, Tabernacles, Hanukkah, Passover and so on . . .

Instead we have:

Passover, a feast, Passover, Tabernacles, Hanukkah, Passover.

If the unnamed feast was Shavuot (Pentecost) it would make more sense but the second Passover listed would still seem out of place and also does not explain why the other feasts Jesus would have had to attend over a supposed two years were not mentioned. However, the reason John 6:4 is there is simply because it was added into the texts during the early history of the New Testament and for which there exists physical evidence; A thirteenth century manuscript called Minuscule 472 housed in the Lambeth Palace library in London, has an editor’s mark next to John 6:4 indicating that there were other manuscripts that had this verse missing from them but the scribe had decided to add the verse anyway, as they also had a manuscript that included John 6:4 which was considered either older or more reliable. This manuscript is not alone, a second (fourteenth century) manuscript called Minuscule 1634, housed at Great Lavra Monastery on Mount Athos, in Greece, also has a similar editor’s note made next to verse John 6:4, indicating that other manuscripts in the copyists possession were missing John 6:4.

This discrepancy can also be traced back to the writings of the early church fathers of the first few century’s. The first recorded mention of the length of Jesus’ ministry was made by Irenaeus, Bishop of Gaul in France b.130AD d.202AD who was the first to state Jesus had gone up to Jerusalem on three separate Passovers, stating somewhat sarcastically; “To be sure all the world will agree that three Passovers are not included in a single year.” It’s not known if he was referring to John 5:1, the un-named feast, or John 6:4 (If indeed John 6:4 was even there at this time?). If it was John 5:1 then he is assuming the mentioned feast was a Passover which was just speculation and if he meant John 6:4, then this again throws up all the problems as previously mentioned. Many of the early church fathers continued to debate in favour of the one year ministry, most notably Clement Bishop of Alexandria b.150 AD d.215 AD was one of the first to counter the notion of a more than one year ministry. However, Origen Bishop of Alexandria b.184 AD d.253 AD in his book ‘Contra Celsum’, written in 248 AD stated that he was satisfied that a case could be made for a three year ministry of Jesus.

This seems to be where the error first crept into the theology of the early church, as from then on there was an ever increasing amount of debate over the length of Jesus’ ministry, which didn’t seem to be an issue before these initial remarks. But it was Eusebius b.263 AD d.339 AD Bishop of Caesarea from 313 AD to 339 AD, who perhaps promoted this theory more than anyone else. He stated that Jesus’ ministry was between three to four years long and that this was the fulfilment of the first half of Daniel’s prophetic end times seven years:

Daniel 9:27
He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.

Eusebius then suggested that the last half of the seven years was from Jesus’ death until the baptism of Cornelius the Roman solider, recorded in the book of Acts chapter 10. In his written exegesis on the book of Daniel, Eusebius suggests that the first definite Gentile believer, Cornelius, was the ultimate fulfilment of Daniel’s prophecy and suggested that this was God’s way of passing the ministry and mission that Jesus had begun, onto the Roman Catholic Church and its Bishops. His theory also diminished the role of the Jewish people, who he saw as having rejected Christianity. Most ironically and somewhat disturbingly, is that the seven year prophecy is actually describing what the Anti-Christ will do in the last seven years before Jesus returns and this last seven years is still awaiting fulfilment.

After the error had crept in and grew in acceptance, others continued to try and argue the case back for the one year ministry, such as Sulpicius Sererus who died in 410 AD. In his work ‘Historia Sacra’ he stated Jesus’ ministry was one year in length and that He was 31 years old at His crucifixion. Although not alone in voicing the one year ministry the three and a half year theory, along with Eusebius’ Roman Catholic ‘boosting’ yet unfounded theology began to be generally accepted throughout both the eastern and western halves of Roman Catholic Christendom. Although numerous writings throughout the last two thousand years have tried to put straight the dates for Jesus’ ministry, the battle between truth and tradition continues. Yet God has left us a trail of clues to help re-establish Jesus’ ministry as only being just over a year in length, thus fulfilling this prophecy:

Isaiah 61:2
to proclaim the year of the LORD’S favour.

 

[When Is Jesus Coming?]

13 hours ago, Keras said:

How true!

Why do you and When is Jesus Coming? worry about the date of Jesus' birth?  The hinge date of this Christian era is when He commenced His Ministry. He received God's Spirit at His baptism, then ministered for 3 1/2 years until His death.  Luke 3:1 is plain: that date was the 15th year of Tiberius - 29.5 AD.  Jesus continues His Ministry, Spiritually. Matthew 28:20

You both avoid my post #3, that sets out the entire perfect timeline of God for mankind.  You both may have spent a lot of time and effort on your versions, as I have too, but the proof of correct accuracy is in how the eras in mine come to the exact 1000 year periods. 

Until you have the courage and moral fortitude to address the timeline I posted, then your discussions are just wasted space. 

 

I agree with your time line more than Abdicates although both have there merits BUT I also see errors in them both. I think it's good that we are here to discuss the differences. As iron sharpens each others knowledge let the fun continue.  

[When Is Jesus Coming?]

6 hours ago, Abdicate said:

Yes, and it's wrong. That's why I didn't bother with it...

Keras is right on this point: 

Tiberius co-ruling the country at all in fact under Augustus' direction Tiberius received the position of Quaestor which was a low ranking political position:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiberius

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quaestor

Tiberius' reign was not made official till a month after Augustus death (19/8/14AD) when The Senate convened on 18 September 14AD to validate Tiberius's position as Princep and, as it had done with Augustus before, extend the powers of the position to him.

Therefore the 15th year was from 18th September 28AD to 18th September 29AD.

Historians take reigns from when they are made official, Luke would have done like wise and it matches the other two dates that the Bible gives.

John 2:20
They replied, “It has taken forty six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?” 

This was said to Jesus when He cleared the temple just before the first Passover of His ministry, history records Herod became king in 37 BC and Josephus records Herod began to rebuild the temple in his 18th year, which was therefore from 20 to 19 BC. Adding 46 years to this arrives at 27 to 28 AD and thus the 47th year in which this was said to Jesus was from 28 to 29AD.

And lastly it ties in with this verse:

Luke 3:23
Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry.

It can be known that Jesus was born on 11th September 3BC and therefore He turned 30 on the 11th September 29AD. 

[When Is Jesus Coming?]

4 hours ago, Abdicate said:

Tiberius was given co-regency (constitutional powers on equal terms with those of Augustus), in 9AD when he won the battle of Illyricum and then renewed in 13 AD and then Augustus died in 14 AD leaving Tiberius sole ruler. http://www.roman-empire.net/emperors/tiberius.html 

I wouldn't use Wikipedia as any source because it lacks credibility and a lazy man's tool. Luke knew Tiberius took office in 9AD and started counting then. As to your other dates they're not accurate as I've already proven and will not spend my Sunday rehashing disproven data.

What is lazy is not even bothering to read your own sources. It says nothing of the sort. What it does say is;

So, from AD 4 to 6 Tiberius again campaigned in Germany. The follwing three years he spent putting down rebellions in Pannonia and Illyricum. After this he restored the Rhine frontier after Rome's defeat at the Varian disaster.

In AD 13 Tiberius' constitutional powers were renewed on equal terms with those of Augustus, making his succession inevitable, as the elderly Augustus died in AD 14.

No mention of being given a co-regency with Augustus, nothing about 9AD. Where did you get that from?

All it says is that he had constitutional powers renewed on equal terms with those of Augustus in 13AD which made his SUCCESSION INEVITABLE, as August's died in 14AD .    

This article proves that Tiberius succession began in 14 AD just as we've been proving to you all along.

Why are you making stuff up? And more to the point why don't you use the Bible dates or accept them? 

 

[When Is Jesus Coming?]

4 hours ago, Abdicate said:

Oh wow! They are every 50 years dude and you contradict yourself in your last sentence. Details brother, details. 

Leviticus 25:10-11 (KJV)
And ye shall hallow the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof: it shall be a jubile unto you; and ye shall return every man unto his possession, and ye shall return every man unto his family. A jubile shall that fiftieth year be unto you: ye shall not sow, neither reap that which groweth of itself in it, nor gather the grapes in it of thy vine undressed.

99 cents makes a dollar not.

You count 49 years and at its end, you declare the 50th year Jubilee.

 

15 hours ago, Keras said:

Abdicate, we are in fact, pretty much in agreement over the calendar issue and the 7000 year Plan of God. 

I would like to point out, however, that calendars are just a tool for us to use for identifying our position in time.  What is really important is how the Biblical time periods add up to the fact of us being as of now, 5988 years from Adam. 

Sorry to say, you make a mistake here. Jubilee's are every 49 years. The 50th year is the Jubilee year and is also the first year of the next 7 times 7 year Sabbath cycle.

A Jubilee is every 50 years not 49. Abdicate is right on this point. But I do agree it is the year 5988. Bang ON! 

[Keras]

3 hours ago, When Is Jesus Coming? said:

A Jubilee is every 50 years not 49. Abdicate is right on this point

Oh boy, you two are confused!   Failing to get this basic truth right, puts your whole belief system into disrepute. 

Leviticus 25:10-11    This confusing passage leaves you wondering if the cycle spoken of is 49 or 50 years long. Most people understand it to mean 50, but this view actually breaks Scripture: the requirement that Jubilees follow every seventh Sabbath year. A Jubilee cycle of 50 years falls out of sync with the Sabbath year cycle since 50 is not a multiple of seven. It falls at the right place for the first Jubilee but with each subsequent Jubilee cycle it drifts a year later each time. Only a Jubilee on a 49-year cycle stays in sync (7 x 7 = 49). 

So why does the Bible refer to the Jubilee as a 50th year? Because the Jubilee is based on and derived directly from the Sabbath year cycle, or specifically counting seven Sabbath year cycles = 49 years. By saying to hallow the 50th year, it makes it clear that it is the year following every seventh Sabbath year. It also makes it clear that the Jubilee is not ever the same year as a Sabbath year nor is it on a separate sequence coming every 50th year. It is the 50th year counting from the last Jubilee because it is using inclusive reckoning in its counting.  This truth is paralleled in Daniel 9:25 and other prophesies that use God's number- seven. 

This means each Jubilee is really the first year of the first Sabbath year cycle of the next Jubilee cycle. In other words, the Jubilee year does not interrupt the Sabbath year cycle, but is always followed by the second year of that Sabbath year cycle. In this way, every Sabbath year remains a multiple of seven years away from any other Sabbath year in history.    Ref: Tim McHyde